Strict budget, slow restoration. *Now with moar budget*

[kronus]

lol wat

[Wh33lhop]

Just curious but does raising the subframe make it any harder to adjust the trailing arm eccentrics?

Actually, I was worried about this, and it appears that it does. I'll have pictures later tonight.

[JrCamacho]

seeing how you tackled the rear end is easing my mind on doing mine, Doesnt seem too involved. And since i am actually a technician, should be nice!

I have wasted the last THREE hours at work reading through the thread! I commend your efforts in parking lots, spots, and on the street! Doing that swap where you got it done was definitely worth the read! And I was ecstatic when it first fired up!

Its good to read though a thread like this with the same mods in mind, helps you push yourself to get them done! Your thread alone shows that anything can be done to these cars, whether you have the cash flow to get it all done, or MAKE the TIME to get it done on your OWN time, Props to you Wh33lhop!

[BrownBeanE30]

Damn dude your putting in alot of work good job

[MR 325]

To unhook the ebrake cables. I didn't want to deal with routing them through the chassis while I had the subframe in the air, there's already enough to worry about. So I just disconnected em at the ebrake. I'd done it before, pretty easy.

Taking the cables out of the car is easier. :D

[Wh33lhop]

Taking the cables out of the car is easier. :D

Well it's reinstalling the ebrakes that's the hard part ;). Just did one last night, luckily I had a friend to hold everything together for me.

[kikkoman]

I recently did both on my suspension refresh when I swapped out the rear subframe. I took the cables out from the car during removal but the new setup was missing the ebrake on one side so I had to put one together from junk yard parts. It was bit frustrating working with those stupid little springs. I've also installed those same poly bushings (just the subframe and trailing arm) so I'll see how these ride.

I've been following this project on/off for inspiration. As everyone already said, awesome work and very entertaining as well! :)

[EBMW21]

wow just read the hole thread amazing work dude!

[richardM30]

I pretty much just lurk around here, as I'm an E21 and E34 owner, but I enjoy a lot this site offers - just posting to say that I enjoyed reading all thirty-f***ing-two pages of this.

You're inspiring.

Now shadowline the other side already!

[dball4]

I just read all 32 pages. Epic

[Massimo]

Hay Wh33lhop I am currently installing the same rear sub-frame bush and diff bush. I noticed that this actually puts the diff higher up in the car.

People have said that this can fuck up the center support bearing because the diff is not in the same place is this true? I cos I am wondering if I should get a new standard diff bush and off set the diff?

[Dj Buttchug]

I dont think the change in angle is enough to ruin the center support.

[Massimo]

I dont think the change in angle is enough to ruin the center support.

Well that is what I was thinking, but seems that a lot of people are paranoid about this. Really just want someone who has this to chime in. I don't really feel like getting it all back together only to fuck something up and have to pull it out again.

[Wh33lhop]

Big mega-post coming up, but no updates. So solly.

I recently did both on my suspension refresh when I swapped out the rear subframe. I took the cables out from the car during removal but the new setup was missing the ebrake on one side so I had to put one together from junk yard parts. It was bit frustrating working with those stupid little springs. I've also installed those same poly bushings (just the subframe and trailing arm) so I'll see how these ride.

I've been following this project on/off for inspiration. As everyone already said, awesome work and very entertaining as well! :)

Thanks man! Yeah the springs are kind of a bitch, eye protection might not be a bad idea.

I pretty much just lurk around here, as I'm an E21 and E34 owner, but I enjoy a lot this site offers - just posting to say that I enjoyed reading all thirty-f***ing-two pages of this.

You're inspiring.

Now shadowline the other side already!

Thanks buddy. Actually, I kind of like the car being unsorted aesthetically right now. I am keeping my priorities straight and doing the important stuff--making it drive right, go, stop and corner well before I start making it pretty. I think my car isn't to a lot of people's tastes because I choose to put my money and effort into making it work better instead of plastic bumper swaps, paint jobs, etc. But that's okay, that's why it surprises people with taillights. When it's fast enough to take people by surprise even when it's pretty, I'll start doing big things to make it look better.

Hay Wh33lhop I am currently installing the same rear sub-frame bush and diff bush. I noticed that this actually puts the diff higher up in the car.

People have said that this can fuck up the center support bearing because the diff is not in the same place is this true? I cos I am wondering if I should get a new standard diff bush and off set the diff?

So here's the deal with the subframe mounts. I am going to do a little suspension geometry 101 here because some people haven't understood why I am spacing the subframe up if I've got adjusters. Skip this text wall if you don't care or you already know, but I am going to go over the downsides of raising the subframe as well.

Alignment is not just about static figures. When you lower your car, in the rear you gain camber and toe-in. Now this is all well and good, and you can correct this by getting adjusters and fixing your static alignment. However, the arcs your suspension moves in will still be compromised and your geometry will still be less than ideal--specifically the toe curve.

Camber gain is pretty linear in the rear--you are going to gain about the same amount of camber when you compress the suspension from stock ride height or from a severely lowered car. Toe, however, is near exponential. Compressing the suspension from stock height will not gain you very much toe, which is good. If you're lowered, though, you will gain many times the amount of toe in. A steep toe curve on the rear is not good for handling purposes. It prevents the car from rotating, scrubs over bumps, and will toe-out over crests making the car unstable. This is part of the shortfall of trailing arms on the E30 chassis.

So, if you can space the subframe up to counteract some of that geometry for the same price as regular poly bushings, why not, right? It only raises the subframe 12mm, and a half an inch won't make a hyooooge difference in the toe curve but it will make it more acceptable, so why not. Right? Right!?

Well, not so fast. There are a few potential issues here, because now you are running some more stuff in different places than they were designed to be. That includes:

1. adjusters will be tough as balls to get to, I will likely have to drop the subframe to make changes to the rear alignment
2. I've got an early model and noticed that the driveshaft seems like it is about to make contact with the chassis because the diff is sitting higher... not necessarily but it is very close. I don't want sparks right next to my gas tanks. I will likely be doing a little clearancing as the Russian AKG support guy suggested ("...have you got hammer?")
3. I think that if your CSB is in good shape, you will be okay. It is really only stretching a rubber bushing a little more, no BFD. However, this also means that you will be taxing your rear universal joint on the driveshaft more. Mine is not in the best condition to begin with so whether this will be an issue or not is up in the air. It will not be much of an angle (under a degree of flex). Additionally, you will be alleviating some of the stress on your axles' CV joints as the angle at which they are pointing upwards (since you are pretty low if you are doing this) is going to be lessened--so this is actually a benefit.

I called AKG and talked to the support guy, some fucking awesome older Russian guy who was pretty seasoned and knew his shit but had absolutely no sense of professionalism, and he basically confirmed what I had feared after looking at how things were going back together. "Oh you have early model? Faaack." "Yes using adjusters weel be nightmare" "Yes it weel be facking pain in ace" (Seriously I wish more support guys were like this). However, I've made my bed and now I'm going to sleep in it, or at least try to. What I am going to do to try and alleviate these issues is reuse OEM subframe bushing washers (that are not meant for reuse with these bushings) to space the subframe down another 3mm or so. This should give a little more clearance to everything as well as rake the diff down a little bit so the driveshaft U-joint doesn't have to operate at the same angle.

This is a lot of text and thinking for likely very small issues, so keep that in mind. I will report back later.

Cliffs: I obsess about stuff that probably doesn't matter, and Russia pops out some people with cool accents.

[Massimo]

^
Ok so it is really trial and error weather shit will go down or not lol. Well maybe ill space my diff down for peace of mind. I don't have the rear sub-frame adjusters so that dose not bother me at all. Thanks for also confirming the oem sub-frame bushes washer I don't have mine on and was wondering if I had fucked up there.

Cheers dude.