NA is best - 3.1L M20 w/ ITB's

[digger]

2 / alt is the same as 1 / simultaneous - its only the timing that changes, they still usually only fire once per rev.

You can of course configure them to fire twice per rev, but its not often done as the pulse at idle gets too short to control properly (esp. with large injectors).

proper full sequential is fire every cycle (2 crank revs /every cam rev), the main purpose is so you can fire with respect to inlet valve motion which happens every 2nd crank rev. the PW potentially changes when you do this depending what you start with of course. 1 big squirt every 720* vs 2 littler squirts every 360*. mine used to idle at 1.8ms now its 2.8ms 850rpm 30lb injectors which would probably be a factor of 2 when you subtract dead time but it wasnt really what would normally be termed "batch" to start with. i dont know what you get out of the box with MS pNP

anyway on with the show...

[Raxe]

Probably too much advance for idle - it will make the car drive jerkily at low r3vs because the advance makes it accelerate.

Sweet thanks, 19 was a guess and didn't kill it so I left it alone. I'll try lowering it a bit.

I'm also thinking now might be a good time to give VEAL a try and see what it can do to help ease things along.

[nando]

Probably too much advance for idle - it will make the car drive jerkily at low r3vs because the advance makes it accelerate.

[Raxe]

Yeah that first picture was set up very very wrong, I've spent the last two afternoons fixing it little by little as I figured out what needed correcting.

- Switched the pins on the TPS connector (whoops) and I'm actually getting a decent ADC range now.
- Changed to alpha-n and disabled all of the MAP input.
- Changed the ignition timing to a proper table and redid all of the table scaling for alpha-n.
- Actually wired my wideband to the MS and set it to read from there vs the narrowband O2.
- Mechanically synchronized the throttles a bit better with a feeler gauge and set a reasonable idle but I still need to do a proper vacuum sync now that it runs.

I've been playing around with the VE and AFR tables and managed to get a decent idle mixture of 13.5-14.5 at 1100rpm, I'm still having a hell of a time with anything under load but it's baby steps... I'm pretty much starting from scratch with no experience and learning along the way.

Is this looking better?



I don't think the scaling is off? Otherwise I'm really not sure what to do about the pulsewidth.

[nando]

2 / alt is the same as 1 / simultaneous - its only the timing that changes, they still usually only fire once per rev.

You can of course configure them to fire twice per rev, but its not often done as the pulse at idle gets too short to control properly (esp. with large injectors).

[digger]

yep sorry its probably not called batch strictly speaking? when they all fire at once every rev, the name escapes me...compared to firing every 2nd rev.

when i did that the PW in the primary fuel map basically doubled (not exact because dead time wont change) , the duty was the same because you have 720* in which to inject vs 360*

[nando]

Are you sure? When i went from batch to sequential, my base PW did not change - the injectors were still firing once per rev. And if you are firing more than once per rev (not usual with sequential), the pulse gets cut in half, not double.

The scaling could definitely be wrong for the injectors but its probably not from changing to sequential fire.

[digger]

yeah the PW is not even right for a fully sequential setup with requires approx double the PW over batch

[Northern]

My innovate came set up to make the aux output and laptop cable read something weird. First thing I'd do is get LM programmer running and make sure your WB is actually spitting out the right readings to the gauge and MS

[Northern]

6.5ms on 24lb is like 2.5 times the amount of fuel I have to get ~14.7:1 at idle on an M52, so that can't be even remotely close.

[ForcedFirebird]

In MS, you need to select the external WB brand you are using. In TunerStudio, go to "tools" then "calibrate AFR table". You will see a drop down menu to select one.

On another note, might want to connect the laptop directly to the innovative and make sure the output is set to 0-5v, as well as calibrating the sensor itself.

[Raxe]

im guessing you are using MAP strategy as opposed to alpha-n? this would explain why the load is so high since the engine is making stuff all vacuum. should be 100% at sea level ignition on engine not running

use the sync tool to get them in the ballpark of balanced even when cold so for warmup so there arent some cylinders over or under fuelling which can cause burn to happen in the exhaust or backfires if they are way out.

glowing exhaust means fuel is burning a fair bit in manifold due to slow/late burn (AFR way out or not enough ignition advance). AFR says lean on the gauge not 11:1

Thanks again for the advice, I am trying the "ITB mode" in MS which does use the MAP but I'll ditch it tomorrow in favor of Alpha-N, I'm thinking tuning speed density that way is a little out of my league at this point.

I'll look into the ignition advance as well, hadn't put much thought into that.

The digital MS AFR reading doesn't correspond with the Innovate I have separately installed with its own sensor, I haven't linked the two at all and am basing my mixture readings on the physical dash gauge vs the laptop - one reads 11:1 and the other 16.9:1 - maybe I have a setting wrong somewhere and the ECU is using my O2 sensor incorrectly. Will need to look into that further, especially if it's basing fuel on a false mixture reading.

I haven't had much luck with a vacuum manifold and SD. Use Alpha-N in MS with ITB's.

Appreciate the tip! I'm drawing that conclusion from searching as well, will play around with that tomorrow.

[ForcedFirebird]

I haven't had much luck with a vacuum manifold and SD. Use Alpha-N in MS with ITB's.

[digger]

im guessing you are using MAP strategy as opposed to alpha-n? this would explain why the load is so high since the engine is making stuff all vacuum. should be 100% at sea level ignition on engine not running

use the sync tool to get them in the ballpark of balanced even when cold so for warmup so there arent some cylinders over or under fuelling which can cause burn to happen in the exhaust or backfires if they are way out.

glowing exhaust means fuel is burning a fair bit in manifold due to slow/late burn (AFR way out or not enough ignition advance). AFR says lean on the gauge not 11:1

[Raxe]

Actually made some progress today for the first time in quite a while. Finished the vacuum hoses for the brake booster and MAP, installed the IAT temporarily and did a "final" assembly of the runners and throttle linkage.



Fired it up for the first time... it runs and idles, but it's suuuper rich. I've set my fuel injector sizing using the calculator in MS for 24lbs but I haven't played with any fuel tables yet, is that my next step? I've only eyeballed the throttle plate sync at the moment as I don't even want to idle it for more than 30 seconds right now, standalone AFR is reading 11:1 but the headers are literally starting to glow after 30 seconds!

Took a quick snap of the live data at idle, I have no reference for what it's supposed to look like so any advice would be really appreciated.

1) Do the MAP and FPR need to share the same vacuum port? I have mine on different ports for simplicity sake but will change it if need be.

2) Is it normal to have such a high fuel load % at idle/1800rpm? Key on/engine off reads 90%.

3) Is it somehow basing its fueling on the lean Air:Fuel ratio shown (16.9)? If so, where might that reading be coming from? My AFR is standalone and not hooked up to the ECU at all.

Thanks in advance for any tips, I have a lot of learning to do here.