The Ecobeamer

[moatilliatta]

Can you change up the ratio on the pedal set for the clutch?

What are you using for a hose?

Missing like a pivot pin or something?

[hkv]

I could change the pedal, idk what thatd do though. Its 6.25-1 which should be good

braided ss -3an brake hose, maybe I should be using -4an

everything seems to be working good just not actuating the TOB enough to release the clutch.

1" MC arrives today that I hope will settle the situation, could go good and release or could overextend the piston and then id have to pull the motor and trans to fix. hopefully I can prevent that from happening lol 1" MC will actuate the TOB allot more than a 3/4" for example so theres a much shorter clutch throw

[hkv]

hey guys, got an update for the thread.

ive run 3/4, 7/8 and 1" master cylinders. its kinda cool how each one changes the behavior of the clutch. none of them however resolved the issue so ive got a different issue than the master cylinder.

i wish there was some easy to fix reason why the clutch wont fully disengage but really what im betting is that the clearance between my throwout bearing and pressure plate fingers is excessive. the instructions state 0.125" +/- 0.025", tilton tech told me 0.2" and while i didnt take a picture or write down what I set it too, I remember setting it to like 6 or 7mm(0.25"), funny enough I repeatedly double checked that clearance but I mustve made the mistake of using the wrong spec clearance. maybe from a different TOB install I did a couple months before. anyways that excessive air gap must be causing the issue, that's all I can settle on as an explanation. pretty funny mistake and results it causes especially since I took the time to check it repeatedly(should have checked the instructions repeatedly!!!) before I bolted everything together.

right now the mission is to pull the powertrain, take off the tranny and reset the clearance to a nice and tight 0.125". ive managed to pull the tko500 out of my cobra(most would tell you its not possible but it is just barely physically possible by literally a mm or two) but this car there is no way you could pull the tranny with the engine in the car. while everything's out I will take the opportunity to tidy up a couple things I cant with the powertrain in the car. for example that cresent shaped metal support over the driveshaft is just barely touching my driveshaft when it spins and is scraping the paint off.

so this is a setback but this stuff happens. I saw the other day some guy said; "the last 10% of a build is 90% of the work" I thought that was funny and relevant haha. I remember when I was grinding hard and getting stuff done everyday and making updates pretty much every day, these last two speedbumps ive run into have really bogged me down and I lost my momentum. first spent a little bit figuring out the motor and getting it to run and now this. I said a couple times in the beginning "hope I don't run into issues and get bogged down" because with any build you know stuff like this tends to happen.

nice thing is pulling the motor and doing all that is pretty straight forward. so Im planning to get back to grinding and get this build moving again. the car is done when its done but maybe I can get her doing some fat burnouts and other shenanigans by the end of the year, if the clutch had worked the car would've been ready to test drive a tiny bit! 3rd deadline is the charm hahah.

that's about it, cheers boys

[hkv]

i could use shims to simulate a tighter air gap to confirm if that's the issue but its so tight in there and hard to reach and i cant imagine what else the issue could be so im probably not going to even bother

[moatilliatta]

We’re you able to measure the air gap?

i use hard clay, then use calipers in it. Some HRB have a shim behind the bearing you can take out.

[hkv]

We’re you able to measure the air gap?

i use hard clay, then use calipers in it. Some HRB have a shim behind the bearing you can take out.

yeah it was like 6-7mm if I remember correctly. apparently 0.1" too big. I don't know how I managed to make the mistake of using the wrong clearance

[moatilliatta]

It happens. Where you able to shim it up?

[hkv]

It happens. Where you able to shim it up?

not even going to bother, I started too but could tell it was gonna be a pain and the only point of shimming it would be to confirm that the air gap was the issue(cant just leave a loose shim in between my Throw out bearing and the pressure plate) so im in the middle of the pulling the motor right now. then I pull the tranny and thread out the TOB several mm and then put everything back together. although I will say: im going to test the clutch and make sure it works with the motor out of the car before I reinstall everything.

im also going to remove the motors balance shaft and probably modify the oil pan for better ground clearance while im in there. im excited to remove the balance shaft and see how that improves things. weighs like 15-20lbs and takes up room in the oil pan for oil and makes your car less able to rev up as quick as its allot of rotational mass. heard removing it gives you an extra 5hp too.

[b5dover]

I would leave the balance shaft alone, these engines have terrible harmonics issues (un-keyed crankshaft dampers spinning). The reluctor wheel for crankshaft position is attached to the un-keyed damper instead of inside the crankcase like any other reasonably well engineered engine. Any misalignment of the damper will cause a shift in spark advance. A mild tune from any reputable tuner that has experience with the 15-20 2.3L Mustang can get you 40-100hp depending on how aggressive you want to get.

[moatilliatta]

Even worse harmonics with aluminum flywheel also. Didn’t pay attention if it was stock or not.

[hkv]

I would leave the balance shaft alone, these engines have terrible harmonics issues (un-keyed crankshaft dampers spinning). The reluctor wheel for crankshaft position is attached to the un-keyed damper instead of inside the crankcase like any other reasonably well engineered engine. Any misalignment of the damper will cause a shift in spark advance. A mild tune from any reputable tuner that has experience with the 15-20 2.3L Mustang can get you 40-100hp depending on how aggressive you want to get.

well I appreciate the heads up man but my gut tells me that you don't really know what your talking about. now im not saying that I do either or that I have a ton of experience either but ive done allot of research on the balance shaft delete.

you say these engines have terrible harmonics issues and then cite the unkeyed crankshaft damper spinning as the reason for that but then go on to point out that the reluctor wheel is attached to the damper( along with alluding that because of that the engine isn't "reasonably well engineered" because the reluctor wheel is outside the crankcase(which frankly is ridiculous lol) but what is also ridiculous is the notion that the crankcase damper will spin out of time with the crank just because its unkeyed. if it where to do that your ecu would have an inaccurate reading of the crank position which would completely mess up or even blow the motor because like you say it will mess up the timing.

just to be clear the m20 has both and unkeyed crankshaft damper and a reluctor wheel outside the crankcase and while an inline 6 is much better balance than an inline 4 I think plenty of people would find the notion that a reluctor wheel outside the crankcase is evidence of poor design just simply not accurate. plenty of engines have reluctors on the outside of the crank, just look at the megasquirt guys.

if the balance shaft delete was so detrimental you would not see countless companies offer it for sale. including funny enough: ford performance

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m6026-23bsbp/overview/

"

Ford Performance Parts EcoBoost balance shaft block-off plugs allow for the removal of the balance shaft. Removing the balance shaft decreases almost 20 pounds of rotating mass. This allows the engine to rev faster and while increasing the oil volume to the upper end of the engine. Ford Performance Parts EcoBoost balance shaft block-off plugs are a must for EcoBoost motor builds.

"

these motors have been around for a decade(producing over 150hp per liter at that) and while they are not as robust tanks as other motors out there, they certainly are not an example of poor motor design.

hope you don't take offense to my someone distrusting or combative tone whatever you want to call it but unless you can cite any examples of issues with the crank damper or balance shaft delete or cite credentials to support your advice then its not going to hold much weight with me.

[hkv]

Even worse harmonics with aluminum flywheel also. Didn’t pay attention if it was stock or not.

im not using the stock flywheel but my flywheel isn't aluminum either. its a solid steel single mass flywheel from what I can tell and I would say its somewhat less heavy than stock but no where near as light as an aluminum flywheel. you can go to page 1 of the thread to see both flywheels if you like.

another thing Ill say: this motor is being used for a motorsports racing application. I could care less if I get more NVH or even 5-20% less longevity out of the motor due to a balance shaft delete. if I got 1000 hours of use out of the motor thatd probably be plenty. I would bet money that a tunetune that squeezes 40-100 more horsies out of the motor is going to reduce its longevity more than a balance shaft delete.

[moatilliatta]

S55 BMW engines have multiple reports of slipped crank hubs that are press fit with reported fixes that also slip.. .

M20 Crank hub is slip fit and keyed, The Damper / timing wheel bolts on one way and has an alignment dowel..

Block composition, Stroke of motor, and RPM have alot to do with it.

More power, More RPM, things break and back to the engineering table, High strung Race S54's get rebuilt every 40-50 hours

I'm just here because I enjoy your dedication and progression, and if it blows up I hope you develop it.

DO IT!

[hkv]

S55 BMW engines have multiple reports of slipped crank hubs that are press fit with reported fixes that also slip.. .

M20 Crank hub is slip fit and keyed, The Damper / timing wheel bolts on one way and has an alignment dowel..

Block composition, Stroke of motor, and RPM have alot to do with it.

More power, More RPM, things break and back to the engineering table, High strung Race S54's get rebuilt every 40-50 hours

I'm just here because I enjoy your dedication and progression, and if it blows up I hope you develop it.

DO IT!

ahh I see. ok well I was mistaken then your definitely right on the m20 I see the key on the crank now.

check this out: "The crankshaft pulley bolt should be replaced with a new original part any time it's removed to ensure the pulley and timing gears do not slip. The original part includes a built in "high friction" washer to ensure stability during high RPM operation." I guess that settles that,

I definitely don't need a keyed harmonic balancer/timing wheel with a "high friction washer" to count on... LOL!

thanks for being a part of the thread man I really appreciate you.

im am planning to do it and if I slip the timing wheel and mess things up I may just have to take your advice and up the ante; build the motor up extreme and go for 400+hp and god knows how much torque

cheers

[hkv]

Im back at it boys! if I have to disregard finishing the wiring harness and the gauges to let her rip a fat burnout before 2020 hits I will!