IMO, one of the worst terrorists in America.....

[Old'n'Slow]

Trial and error is not an acceptable way to learn to handle a vehicle.

I would suggest to all you slightly post-pubescent drivers out there to make your next mod a gift to yourself and those who care about you a weekend seesion at a good driving school. They're all over the country. Google it.

I've reached the age of 42 (eek, gasp!) only because of the education and experience I received under the tutelage of people like Jim Fitzgerald, the folks at Skip Barber and several BMWCCA driver's schools. And I'm not rich, I just made it a fiscal priority! That's not to say I drive recklessly, either. I don't.There's no room for that on the street. One screwup can wipe out a family. But I can think of several incidents caused by other drivers, where the knowledge and skills I gained by taking myself and my car to limit in a controlled and relatively safe environment made the difference between avoiding the crash or being a participant in the crash.

I think graduated licenses will become more and more commonplce in the near future. Personally, given the propensity of younger drivers to try and prove to their peers what a hot shit they are behind the wheel, I'd go for a "no passengers under 21" rule from age 16-18. If you can make it to 18 with no tickets or "at-fault" accidents, you would graduate to an unrestricted license.

Unfortunately, this country is unlikely to impose driver training reform anytime soon. We will continue have accidents like this: When I lived in Nashville, there was a nasty wreck where 4 girls under the age of 18 were killed when their SUV put two wheels of the pavement. The driver(with obviously no understanding of vehicle dynamics) jerked the wheel to get back on the road and flipped the SUV. All unbelted occupants were ejected and killed. Only one survived-the one who kept her seatbelt on. The crazy thing about this incident was that the mother of the driver was in a car in front of the SUV, and watched all this happen helplessly. It all happened in an instant. Distraction followed by incorrect action.

With this country's fucked up priorities, I don't think driver training will ever be anything like what Germany has in place. So let's at least eliminate some of the distractions until drivers have a little more experience.

[fox]

NO! TEEN DRIVERS ARE THE BEST

[Tvan]

Trial and error is not an acceptable way to learn to handle a vehicle.

I would suggest to all you slightly post-pubescent drivers out there to make your next mod a gift to yourself and those who care about you a weekend seesion at a good driving school. They're all over the country. Google it.

I've reached the age of 42 (eek, gasp!) only because of the education and experience I received under the tutelage of people like Jim Fitzgerald, the folks at Skip Barber and several BMWCCA driver's schools. And I'm not rich, I just made it a fiscal priority! That's not to say I drive recklessly, either. I don't.There's no room for that on the street. One screwup can wipe out a family. But I can think of several incidents caused by other drivers, where the knowledge and skills I gained by taking myself and my car to limit in a controlled and relatively safe environment made the difference between avoiding the crash or being a participant in the crash.

I think graduated licenses will become more and more commonplce in the near future. Personally, given the propensity of younger drivers to try and prove to their peers what a hot shit they are behind the wheel, I'd go for a "no passengers under 21" rule from age 16-18. If you can make it to 18 with no tickets or "at-fault" accidents, you would graduate to an unrestricted license.

Unfortunately, this country is unlikely to impose driver training reform anytime soon. We will continue have accidents like this: When I lived in Nashville, there was a nasty wreck where 4 girls under the age of 18 were killed when their SUV put two wheels of the pavement. The driver(with obviously no understanding of vehicle dynamics) jerked the wheel to get back on the road and flipped the SUV. All unbelted occupants were ejected and killed. Only one survived-the one who kept her seatbelt on. The crazy thing about this incident was that the mother of the driver was in a car in front of the SUV, and watched all this happen helplessly. It all happened in an instant. Distraction followed by incorrect action.

With this country's fucked up priorities, I don't think driver training will ever be anything like what Germany has in place. So let's at least eliminate some of the distractions until drivers have a little more experience.

CliffsNotes please.

[!RocknE30!]

I think if teens have a dad (like me) who will get rid of my car in no time if I do something totally stupid (and then id probablly get an ass kicking or two) help keep you from driving like a moron.

I've never raced anyone anywhere mainly because my car is soo damn slow and I know if I get a ticket I am fucked. Fastest I've ever driven in my car was maybe 90mph when I was following my dad home from a trip up north and we had to pass a few cars.

Sometime soon I'm hopefully going to go out to PIR in my E30 for a track day or two..or three.

[Digitalwave]

gah, only 4 months left until i'm 19

Whose car is that E39 M5 then?

[Tvan]

PM sent.

[Old'n'Slow]

CliffsNotes please.

I see poor attention spans are alive and well.:roll:

Perhaps you can comprehend this:

Most teens are absolutely pathetic excuses for drivers and are a danger to themselves and everyone else they share the road with. Furthermore, since they lack any meaningful training they should not be allowed to have passengers under 21 until they have shown themselves capable of not being stupid fuckups, at least when they are behind the wheel. Especially in view of typically poor teen attention spans.

You might consider reading the entire book sometime. There's generally a reason the great literary works aren't pamphlets.

CliffsNotes are :weak:

[Charlie]

CliffsNotes please.

It's four paragraphs. If you can't do that, you need to go back and take a remedial fifth grade education course.

-Charlie

[Tvan]

It's four paragraphs. If you can't do that, you need to go back and take a remedial fifth grade education course.

-Charlie

Thanks chief, I was just giving him shit for making a long post, didn't need you chiming in.

That same story from CNN ran on Fox 59 (the worst news channel ever) last night.

[imsotyerred]

i'm 17, had my licese since august '05

had my permit for a year and a half before then

i wouldn't say that i am a 'bad' driver...used to do the stupid shit like speed and do clutch kicks around turns on the road... but now i have calmed down on the road and will be doing auto-x in the spring/summer, so i can leave the crazy on the track

and yes, 17 year olds are stupid and get distracted easily while driving, it's an epidemic that became even more true with cell phones and ipods, there is no substitue for statistics.

[Good & Tight]

I'm 37 and my wife tells me all the time i'm a shitty driver.
When I was a teen I averaged about 12 accidents 1/2 of them hit and run.

[Digitalwave]

i'm 17, had my licese since august '05

had my permit for a year and a half before then

i wouldn't say that i am a 'bad' driver...used to do the stupid shit like speed and do clutch kicks around turns on the road... but now i have calmed down on the road and will be doing auto-x in the spring/summer, so i can leave the crazy on the track

and yes, 17 year olds are stupid and get distracted easily while driving, it's an epidemic that became even more true with cell phones and ipods, there is no substitue for statistics.

So you've had your license for less than 4 months and you are saying you are an above average driver?

[Old'n'Slow]

Thanks chief, I was just giving him shit for making a long post, didn't need you chiming in.

This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Please allow me to apologize for this departure from the topic.

Tvan's average post is two sentences long, usually composed of sentence fragments.

I searched, and looked at every one of his 353 posts while I ate my lunch. He's never so much as strung together an entire paragraph.

Here are some classics: These aren't taken from the post, they are the entire post!

"looks good"
"o snap"
"farking nuts"
"White socks FTW"
"yea, we're all pretty much idiots"

Consistent 1-2 line answers might be considered by some around here to be the indication of a <whispering>post whore.

This is a bulletin board. Not a chat room.

Either add something meaningful to the topic, or don't post!

Disclaimer: Nothing said here should be construed as advocating the avoidance of occasionally being "flip" or answering with two words. But crimony, Henny Youngman* had fewer one-liners.

I'm not trying to be mean, Tvan. I just think that "CliffNotes" post was not only off-topic, but utterly uncalled for, as well.



*Henny Youngman( 1906-1998 ) Vaudeville style comic known for his one or two line jokes.:D

On topic: When a real driving instructor tells you you're above average, then you are. If you just think you are, you may be overconfident. BMWCCA or similar driving school FTW. :up:

[rwh11385]

Trial and error is not an acceptable way to learn to handle a vehicle.

word. and thank you

[nando]

I've been driving for over a decade, and honestly I wouldn't say I was a "good" driver until the last couple years. I know Autox doesn't quite match up to HPDE's (I'll get there eventually), but once I started doing that for a while I realized how impossible - and how incredibly stupid, driving "at the limit" on the street is.

With what I've learned in 3 years of autox, if I were to apply it to my street driving and drive my car as fast as I'm capable of I'd probably kill somebody within an hour. I also realized that what I thought was driving "fast" before was just pressing down on the gas pedal and letting the car take me for a ride.

I'm not saying I never speed (I normally don't, but if I'm passing you.. the sky's the limit), or that I never do anything in my car for fun, but I gave up the whole "canyon run" and driving fast down backroads thing a long time ago.