If there was a draft would you go?

[1991 318is]

The last time.

The last time we had a draft was during Viet Nam. Student deferments were the first to be eliminated then new enlistments in the National Guard (considered not properly trained for regular military service and known as weekend warriors.) President Bush got into the guard after it was closed to new enlistees.
To solve the political problem of a compulsory draft during an unpopular war on foreign soil it had to be fair. That meant no favoritism to the wealthy, college students, etc. Those who thought they could be of better service by getting rich were drafted with the rednecks, poor of all races, uneducated, and the rest. In the end it was done by lottery because there were more eligible than were needed. The lottery was by birth date.
When the draft was introduced during the Civil War there were riots in the North and the South. In 1917, you could no longer "hire" a replacement to go for you.
I don't think many people here would not volunteer, much less wait to be drafted, if the US were attacked on it's own soil. It's all that other stuff that makes it a sticky question. That's why the soldiers in our volunteer army keep getting sent back for more and more "tours".

[Jscotty]

I voted that I would go simply because I know that in the event of a draft I would not be put in a combat position.

But overall its a tough thing to decide in current times because there is a difference between fighting a war to protect the country and fighting to conquor another country. And I think that we have the whole concept of war twisted. As someone stated earlier- The president made a simplistic statement to the world saying that you are either with the US or you are with the terrorists. There are many countries out there that hate the US yet they are very much against any act of terrorism. So to suggest that we are going to war against someone simply because they wouldn't side up with the US makes it very hard for an American to volunteer to go to war.

Just because someone isn't my friend, that does not automatically make them my enemy and it's not wise to make new enemies when you have not even explored the possibility of developing a friendship.

[Ablice]

No, unfortunately, the days when you 'run what you brung' are over. There is motion in the direction of a better rifle, but politics are getting in the way. Some troops get different/better rifles, but these are generally the special ops guys, not the average Joes.

Consider this: In WW2, we'll put the setting Europe. Now not everyone could get what they wanted, but you had the M1 Garand, M1/M2 Carbine, M3 "grease gun", Thompson SMG, and B.A.R. Now I don't know more if a regular PFC or someone could pick up a Tommy from a fallen officer and use it because he found it more suited towards his style, but one thing that doesn't fit me is the AR series. The HK MP5A4 with the full stock fits me well, the SD is fine as long as it's full stock, and the 33e is cool too. But see I know that I won't get any of those if I enlist or get drafted, so I ain't goin' in. That's like giving me a lowered track car and expecting me to do some rough fire roads. If they draft me, umm...we'll some fire breathing coming their end from me, I don't want the AR/M16/M4 series. How do they deal with that?

And I agree on the M9 issue as well - when I first qualified with a pistol in the Army it was the M1911, and while the M9 may be more accurate and let you carry more rounds, my point has always been this: if they are close enough that I need to use my pistol, I want to drop them with one shot, not throw a lot of lead at them. The .45 will do that.

I'll pass on the knockdown crap, everyone knows a hit with a .22LR is better than a miss with a .44 mag. But that's a discussion for another time. One thing is sure is the M9 doesn't fit me. I haven't fired .45, but I do prefer more rounds and modest recoil — .40? dunno I have yet to get into guns. would love to any day though. The 1911 s/s does fit me pretty nicely though, and it's a nice combat pistol. the SIGs P2xx series are down right cool, I'll need to try some of them out.

[KenC]

As for the "I'm too intelligent" excuse- I think you've proven yourself wrong by posting that shit. It's an insult to those who are serving to protect your stupid ass.

Yeah, I'm thankful that we don't have to fight them over here. ;)

[Jand3rson]

On a side note for all you guys who love guns..... I got my hands on a .50cal sniper rifle last night.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... sometimes this job is honestly super cool.

Fuckin' SWEET. Ever since I saw "Smokin Aces" I've wanted to fire a .50 cal SO bad.

[Jscotty]

As for the "I'm too intelligent" excuse- I think you've proven yourself wrong by posting that shit.

Someone told me about some similar foolishness during the first Gulf war. This guy went on and on about how people who work in the financial and banking industries won't be drafted because they are needed to manage the commerce exchange and they will be needed to maintain the structural integrity of the economy.

[atomic]

Fuckin' SWEET. Ever since I saw "Smokin Aces" I've wanted to fire a .50 cal SO bad.

Chic shooting a .50 cal enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmABi-V8xOg

[Il Duce]

^^^^ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

ha.

[h0lmes]

Chic shooting a .50 cal enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmABi-V8xOg

Haha watch her butt cheeks jiggle when she fires. Funny shit.

[ak96ss]

Consider this: In WW2, we'll put the setting Europe. Now not everyone could get what they wanted, but you had the M1 Garand, M1/M2 Carbine, M3 "grease gun", Thompson SMG, and B.A.R. Now I don't know more if a regular PFC or someone could pick up a Tommy from a fallen officer and use it because he found it more suited towards his style, but one thing that doesn't fit me is the AR series. The HK MP5A4 with the full stock fits me well, the SD is fine as long as it's full stock, and the 33e is cool too. But see I know that I won't get any of those if I enlist or get drafted, so I ain't goin' in. That's like giving me a lowered track car and expecting me to do some rough fire roads. If they draft me, umm...we'll some fire breathing coming their end from me, I don't want the AR/M16/M4 series. How do they deal with that?

They deal with that by giving you the weapon you are assigned, which is likely to be an AR/M16/M4. Just the reality of arming however many thousands of people they give weapons to - supply-side constraints, if you will. If everyone has the same rifle, you only need that kind of bullets.

I'll pass on the knockdown crap, everyone knows a hit with a .22LR is better than a miss with a .44 mag. But that's a discussion for another time. One thing is sure is the M9 doesn't fit me. I haven't fired .45, but I do prefer more rounds and modest recoil — .40? dunno I have yet to get into guns. would love to any day though. The 1911 s/s does fit me pretty nicely though, and it's a nice combat pistol. the SIGs P2xx series are down right cool, I'll need to try some of them out.

Sure, the smaller rounds are more accurate. But I'll say it again - if they are close enough for me to use my pistol, I want stopping power, not necessarily bullseye accuracy. The rifle is your primary weapon, in all but a very few circumstances. I'm not shooting at anyone with a pistol if I have a rifle available and can bring it to bear. Pistols are going to be within 7 meters or so and, honestly, worst-case scenario. Lots of bullets would be handy, too, but again, that's what the rifle is for.

Personally, I have a 1911-derivative - Colt MkIV Series 80 in stainless. I like it, but it stays at home when I deploy. It's hard to come by .45 rounds from supply anymore... :)

Speaking of which, we had the M3 'Grease Gun' in my first unit - what a hoot to fire! You sure ain't hittin' anyone with anything but the first round or so, but an amazingly simple weapon. Nothing like a .45 submachine gun to put a smile on your face! Of course, we had M151 Jeeps, too, which I sorely miss. Wouldn't do any real good in today's Army, but they were fun to drive, simple to work on, and would damn near go anywhere you had a mind to put it!

[LINUS]

I cursory read the whole thread, and I still don't understand the option "ROB" ----W T F does that mean?

12% of our membership not only 'gets it' - but voted to do whatever it means.

Someone enlighten my ignorant butt already.

[euroshark]

my ancestory fought the british. what did yours do? why are people whose families moved in trhe last 2 centuries but serve more patiriotuic than those who started thius nation?

I'm not sure what you are getting at... I have ancestry from all over Europe, pretty much from every country BUT England, so I am 99% sure that my "family" has fought against them at one time or another too. So what? I don't know what the hell you are talking about sir...

I even have family from France. Maybe you were responding to my statement that draft dodgers should be sent to France with all the other spineless buttfuckers... I used France only because lately they are a bunch of bitches, not because I have any real deep seeded grudge against the French... It was just to make a point...

[Massive Lee]

I cursory read the whole thread, and I still don't understand the option "ROB" ----W T F does that mean?

12% of our membership not only 'gets it' - but voted to do whatever it means.

Someone enlighten my ignorant butt already.

Hey Linus. I guess that ROB means something like "Run over the Border" or, like you we guessed, to Canada. Some may elect to go to Mexico, but that's another type of "expatriates". Interestingly, somebody mentioned with humor that Canadians don't have a say in this survey. Which can be debated. But at the same time, Canada is closely involved in the US's decisions concerning the Middle East and therefore, its opinion must be heard.

Per exemple, when the US needed more troups to Irak, they took some from Afghanistan, and guess who replaced them? You guessed right. Canadian troups, which were trained for a UNO mission, but are now involved in a real warfare with weekly casualties. Not to mention "friendly" fire, that killed a couple of Canadian troups a few years ago. If in the 1980s the Russians couldn't defeat the Talihban, I wonder how Canadian troups will, and how many casualties it will take for the Canadian government to realize they got a bad deal.

If the current US government is so much about bringing freedom to the world, I wonder why they don't invade all the dictatorships they have themselve set-up or supported. Oups, I forgot, they just did that, by taking over Saddam Hussein... Sorry. I have such a short memory.

[marakka]

.50 cal sniper rifle and an m2 .50 cal machine gun are 2 different beasts. I love both equally though. Talk about something that makes you feel like a man once you are done with it. Wow.....

Rob is some oldskool shit that we've had here for years. It doesn't mean anything other than Rob.

As for the fella who has a problem with the AR series.... If you came in you'd have that rifle regardless. Thats just the way it is. However.... it may not be your main weapon. You could be on an M1 using that 120mm monster or on an M2 Bradley using a 25mm as your "rifle" so to speak. there are other ground pounding positions such as 19D Cav Scout that have positions that utilize alternate weapons such as the .50 cal sniper that I was talking about before. If you have knowledge and express that to someone at some point during your entry process you'll end up going in a direction that will get you in the right place at the end of the day. I came in... told them I wanted to be a mechanic. I ended up chosing a job that puts me on Bradleys working with a 600hp 8800lb diesel setup daily. I'm also in charge of a welding shop which is outside of my job normally but I got the chance to learn most of the MIG, TIG and arc welding proceedures too. There's a lot to be offered rather than looking at it as brainwashing or something along those lines.

[Ablice]

They deal with that by giving you the weapon you are assigned, which is likely to be an AR/M16/M4. Just the reality of arming however many thousands of people they give weapons to - supply-side constraints, if you will. If everyone has the same rifle, you only need that kind of bullets.

So they willingly give you a rifle that doesn't fit you. That's interesting. Well to be fair I have never heard of them asking you what fits you well. After all, wouldn't you shoot better with a rifle that fits you well and you are comfortable with? I'm not into tanks, but they're very useful, so I'd probably get shoved into infantry.

HK 33e rifles are chambered for .223 Rem. I like submachine guns, notably the MP5, it does look a bit ugly sometimes but it is a nice firearm. It fits me pretty well, I like the paddle mag release a gazillion times better than the AR mag release which is too far up and to hard to depress, the AR sights are too high and the stock isn't formed the same way as the HKs are. I could probably settle for a suppressed MP5SD with a full stock and work night deals.

I'll probably make a big heat about having a pistol too. And I ain't taking no M9, thank you. Probably one reason contractors are ... cooler (to an extent ) is because of weapon flexibility. Gotta try those sigs...:p:p



YEAH!!! slick pistols.

Sure, the smaller rounds are more accurate. But I'll say it again - if they are close enough for me to use my pistol, I want stopping power, not necessarily bullseye accuracy. The rifle is your primary weapon, in all but a very few circumstances. I'm not shooting at anyone with a pistol if I have a rifle available and can bring it to bear. Pistols are going to be within 7 meters or so and, honestly, worst-case scenario. Lots of bullets would be handy, too, but again, that's what the rifle is for.

I'll agree to an extent, but let's just cut it this way: "A pistol is a weapon you use to fight your way back to your rifle." -Jeff Cooper

As for the fella who has a problem with the AR series.... If you came in you'd have that rifle regardless. Thats just the way it is. However.... it may not be your main weapon. You could be on an M1 using that 120mm monster or on an M2 Bradley using a 25mm as your "rifle" so to speak. there are other ground pounding positions such as 19D Cav Scout that have positions that utilize alternate weapons such as the .50 cal sniper that I was talking about before. If you have knowledge and express that to someone at some point during your entry process you'll end up going in a direction that will get you in the right place at the end of the day. I came in... told them I wanted to be a mechanic. I ended up chosing a job that puts me on Bradleys working with a 600hp 8800lb diesel setup daily. I'm also in charge of a welding shop which is outside of my job normally but I got the chance to learn most of the MIG, TIG and arc welding proceedures too. There's a lot to be offered rather than looking at it as brainwashing or something along those lines.

Well, cool. M1 tanks are tight.

Still, I believe I would have a hard time fitting the AR. Just doesn't fit me, I like to the looks of it, but it's just not my slice of pie. A one-size-supposedly-fits-all rifle just doesn't work on me.