change.gov

[rwh11385]

A victim's mentality as well as one who is totally dependent on someone else to take care of one's self. My RIGHTS granted by the Constitution that my brother fights for even now in Iraq are what is precious to me. The right and the ability to defend myself and my family is what is precious to me.

Still yet not ONE liberal minded individual that would have those rights taken from me has answered my question.

Come on Wells, Obama is president now because a lot of people elected the celebrity candidate and it is time to support him, even if he aims to get rid of what makes America, America.

[rwh11385]

A. grow up and see things for how they really are and your idealistic view of how the world should be is a fantasy land.

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains."

Dude, don't you know, you only have to protect the rights of the majority (who vote for hope and emotion, not with reason or intelligence) these days.

[rwh11385]

doesn't word liberal derive from liberty?


Because if it does, democrats are not liberals. They need to find a new name for themselves.

No, that is more libertarian.

http://www.answers.com/liberal

1. a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas
They don't trust the establishment and think whatever is in place is wrong

1. b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress
Once again, believing what is in place isn't ideal and want to change it

2. a. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor
They are only generous with other people's money


No matter what is going on with the world, a liberal will find a way to try to change the system and have a reason they need to have a job in politics rather than necessarily do what is healthiest. Some conservatives are now so distressed by, as DCcolvegrove mentioned, that they want to be reactionists (Ron Paul) and go back before the constitution was thrown out the window for "modern ideals".

Some Democrat was campaigning at the polling place, my old elementary school, for a state position for our district. She was walking down the line at 5:45 a.m. and saying she was going to improve our schools. I wanted to try not get into a fight there, but I was about to say "wtf are you talking about? our high school is in the top 2% of this nation's public schools and our schools that feed into it are high quality". They don't actually know what is going on but try to feed you a reason that there is a problem and they need to "fix it". Conservatives deal with the problems instead of using the same old rhetoric and don't fix what isn't broken.

[rwh11385]

And why do you need an assault weapon again? Planning on starting a war or something?

Why do you care? He is exercising his right (while it still exists) to use the 2nd amendment as he sees fit.

[rwh11385]

Europe: Way fewer guns, way less crime.

America: Way more guns, way more crime.

Coincidence?

You edited your post, but I want to enjoy your cluelessness more

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm

Britain used to have the right to carry, but now only the criminals have them. (NOT EVEN A LOT OF THE COPS)

and for an update from '03

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm

If you don't have guns, you get knives.

In fact, the most common weapon used in a violent crime in England and Wales is not a gun - but a knife.

There are four times more knife-related killings as firearms-related killings.

Almost a fifth of all crimes committed by under-18s are violent offences, second only to theft - and the number of violent crimes has risen consecutively for four years

[rwh11385]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_vic-crime-assault-victims

#2 United Kingdom: 2.8%
#3 Australia: 2.4%
#4 New Zealand: 2.4%
#5 Canada: 2.3%
#6 Finland: 2.1%
#7 Denmark: 1.4%
#8 France: 1.4%
#9 Belgium: 1.2%
#10 United States: 1.2%
#11 Sweden: 1.2%

People victimized by assault (as a % of the total population).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita

Burglaries (per capita) (most recent) by country

#1 Australia: 21.7454 per 1,000 people
#2 Dominica: 18.7892 per 1,000 people
#3 Denmark: 18.3299 per 1,000 people
#4 Estonia: 17.4576 per 1,000 people
#5 Finland: 16.7697 per 1,000 people
#6 New Zealand: 16.2763 per 1,000 people
#7 United Kingdom: 13.8321 per 1,000 people
#8 Poland: 9.46071 per 1,000 people
#9 Canada: 8.94425 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa: 8.89764 per 1,000 people
#11 Montserrat: 8.24323 per 1,000 people
#12 Iceland: 8.11156 per 1,000 people
#13 Switzerland: 8.06303 per 1,000 people
#14 Slovenia: 7.93734 per 1,000 people
#15 Czech Republic: 7.24841 per 1,000 people
#16 Hungary: 7.15849 per 1,000 people
#17 United States: 7.09996 per 1,000 people
#18 France: 6.11634 per 1,000 people
#19 Ireland: 5.73755 per 1,000 people
#20 Netherlands: 5.55531 per 1,000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_per_of_saf_wal_in_dar-crime-perception-safety-walking-dark

Perception of safety > Walking in dark (most recent) by country

#1 Sweden: 85%
#2 Canada: 82%
#3 United States: 82%
#4 Netherlands: 81%
#5 Finland: 81%
#6 Denmark: 81%
#7 Austria: 78%
#8 Japan: 78%
#9 Belgium: 77%
#10 France: 77%
#11 Switzerland: 77%
#12 United Kingdom: 70%
#13 Italy: 65%
#14 Australia: 64%
#15 New Zealand: 62%

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims

Rape victims (most recent) by country

#1 New Zealand: 1.3%
#2 Austria: 1.2%
#3 Finland: 1.1%
#4 Sweden: 1.1%
#5 Australia: 1%
#6 United Kingdom: 0.9%
#7 Netherlands: 0.8%
#8 Canada: 0.8%
#9 Slovenia: 0.8%
#10 France: 0.7%
#11 Italy: 0.6%
#12 Switzerland: 0.6%
#13 Denmark: 0.4%
#14 United States: 0.4%

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

#1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people
#2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people
#3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people
#4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people
#5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people
#6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people
#8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people
#9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people
#11 Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people
#12 Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people
#13 Norway: 71.8639 per 1,000 people
#14 France: 62.1843 per 1,000 people

Notice even in welfare states there is still crime.

Yes, we are indeed have "way more crime" than Europe... :roll:

We have more gun crime maybe because of availability but criminals just use other means.

[Aptyp]

^ whoring? I think so.

[rwh11385]

I hardly think a bunch of redneck hillbillies with shotguns and AR-15s qualifies as a militia. Do you really, honestly believe you are going to have to defend yourself from your own government? Do you think they're suddenly going to go on a murder rampage or something? You might as well build a meteor strike shelter in your back yard, because there's a better chance of that happening.

The more you guys talk about 'defending yourself from a tyrannical government', the more like crazies you sound.

Crazy like Thomas Jefferson

"People should not be afraid of their governments. The Government should be afraid of their people." - from the movie "V for Vendetta".

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson


So you trust the government to control its influence and protect your rights versus its interest to oppress them?

Haha.

The founders of this country were very distrustful of government and government has not tried to become less controlling since then.

"Government is not reason and it is not eloquence. It is force! Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have…The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." - Thomas Jefferson

"With all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens -- a wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities."
-- Thomas Jefferson, from his First Inaugural Address

And then some people realize a reason for concern instead of blind trust in the government:

"Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government." - Milton Friedman

“The history of liberty is a history of limitation of government power, not the increase of it.” “Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance.” - Woodrow Wilson


And this is truer now that ever:
"In the the time of economic crisis, when critical extensions of governmental power are likely to occur … there is little opportunity for a meaningful vote on whether or not, as a matter of principle, the powers of the state should be extended. Instead, there is likely to be an insistent demand for emergency action of some sort and relatively little consideration of what the permanent effect will be."
Economist Calvin Hoover, The Economy, Liberty and the State, 1959

[mrsleeve]

you notice who is up in the morning, lol

[Massive Lee]

Milton Friedman - Born in 1912
Calvin Hoover - Born 1897
Woodrow Wilson - Born 1857
Thomas Jefferson - Born 1743
George Washington - Born 1732

A world different world from now.

[Ral]

Their ideals still apply

[dvs909]

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil...
in its worst an intolerable one. My prediction, the economy slows and government grows. I can actually understand why some are willing to put up with a large government that they are dependent on. They just want to feel some sort of security in an uncertain world. I don't know if its cause they have a dad, or a God complex im no shrink, but i do know this it is a mistake. I heard a quote recently that said something like every democratic society will eventually corrupt itself because eventually people will realize that they can vote themselves money. I believe our country just took a dramatic turn towards this scenario yesterday. I don't have a problem with those who voted obama because he will end the war, or something like that, I may disagree, but disagreement is ok. I do have a problem with those of you who voted obama because you think you will get everything for free now. You just sold the country out, you shmuck, you idiot, you cancel out my well informed vote for some freebies, or a welfare check disguised as a tax credit. I understand that the lower and middle class have been indoctrinated into believing that the rich got rich on the backs of the poor, when did it become noble to be poor, and why do we call these people the working class, why do we bankrupt our country to make those on welfare more comfortable, i believe in helping those who are down on their luck and maybe just lost their job, but to allow individuals who are lifetime welfare recipients to live in government housing, eat with food stamps, and now coming soon free healthcare. Becoming rich should be something to aspire to, but people are lead to believe the wealthy are all like Mr. Burns on the simpsons, or they recieved an inheritance, and yet 90% of millionaires are first generation. They got to where they are by long 12-15 hour days, taking a risk, perhaps starting a company which is more time consuming than children, and now that their risk has paid off were headed down a road to jimmy carters 70% tax on top wage earners. For the democratic party to prey on everyones natural jealousy of those that are more successful than we are makes me sick. I see right through their class warfare and it really chaps my ass. They create a dependency on government for future job security, all the while lying through their fake smiles taht they are the party that cares for the poor. If you want to take care of the poor, do it, and i'll be right there beside you because i believe it is our duty to help each other, but don't punish the wealthy for being taking the kind of risks that create the very jobs that the poor rely so heavily on. If you want to help the poor inspire them to become something greater, you don't help the poor by making them bitter and pitting americans against each other, and im sorry obama you can't unify the country with one speech and then go play your class envy in another. I wish I could talk to some of these obama supporters whose only hope is in the government. How sad that must be to not believe in yourself and your ability to do whatever you want in life. In the end this most recent election will not change the way i act and what i do because my drive to be successful comes from within and no matter whose in office that won't change, although if things get too bad i might have to move my motivated butt to Switzerland. of course im kidding i love this country and ill always have hope for a better tommorrow, but my hope is not inspired by a yard sign or a lofty speech, and I know I CAN do whatever i want to do because i have drive, not because i got goosebumps at a rally when they broke out into YES WE CAN.

This is from my friend Josh Mannard, who i graduated highschool with in '06. his family is poor, dirt poor. he now owns a house in Georgia that he rents out and just bought another here in Michigan, and is well on his way into the top tax bracket. just thought some background might be interesting on this quote.

[dvs909]

We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

Winston Churchill (1903)

Every time government attempts to handle our affairs, it costs more and the results are worse than if we had handled them ourselves.

Benjamin Constant, Brazilian statesman

There are severe limits to the good that the government can do for the economy, but there are almost no limits to the harm it can do.

Milton Friedman, Nobel laureate

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.

Robert A. Heinlein

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot further the brotherhood of many by encouraging class hatred. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn. You cannot build character and courage by taking away mans initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

Abraham Lincoln

There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it, A politician who portrays himself as "caring" and "sensitive" because he wants to expand the Government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to try to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't? And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he'll do good with his own money - if a gun is held to his head.

P. J. O'Rourke

Give me control over a man's economic actions, and hence over his means of survival, and except for a few occasional heroes, I'll promise to deliver to you men who think and write and behave as I want them to.

Benjamine A. Rooge

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend of the support of Paul.

George Bernard Shaw

The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under the name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened.

Norman Thomas - Socialist Party Presidential candidate (1976)

No republic has long outlived the discovery by a majority of its people that they could vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.

Alexander Tytler

The Tenth Commandment [thou shalt not covet] sends a message to collectivists, to people who believe wealth is best obtained by redistribution. And the message is clear and concise: Go to hell.

P. J. O'Rourke

[dvs909]

The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a "warm body" democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction.... [O]nce a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader — the barbarians enter Rome.

[nando]

Milton Friedman - Born in 1912
Calvin Hoover - Born 1897
Woodrow Wilson - Born 1857
Thomas Jefferson - Born 1743
George Washington - Born 1732

A world different world from now.

so none of those people are intelligent because they were born before American Idol and internet porn?