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    Originally posted by roguetoaster View Post
    To get to be 300lbs it takes years of work/neglect to get there, and any time along that way it's possible to help those people.

    To become radicalized to the point where someone wants to go to a public place and kill people takes years, and any time along the way it's possible to help those people.

    The question is, in either case, are we as fellow humans obliged to correct their lives, and how do we do so without blithely imposing our views (which are ever evolving and might well be wrong in the future) on their lives?
    You're conflating two vastly different issues and trying to make them appear the same.


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      Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

      You're conflating two vastly different issues and trying to make them appear the same.

      Nope, the underlying issue is the same, even though the example is clearly illustrative. When, how, or should we, as a society, alter current rights without unnecessarily impinging on the enjoyment of life of others?

      Comment


        Originally posted by roguetoaster View Post

        Nope, the underlying issue is the same, even though the example is clearly illustrative. When, how, or should we, as a society, alter current rights without unnecessarily impinging on the enjoyment of life of others?
        Your own sentence contradicts itself. Someone taking their own life, does not impact MY ability to pursue life, liberty, and property.

        Shooting me in the head as I grab a loaf of bread from the bakery, very specifically impacts my ability to pursue life, liberty, and property.


        Now sure, I see what you're getting at by someone slowly killing themselves through obesity or substance abuses does cost society through increase healthcare costs. But if that's the road you want to take, we can run with that logic all the way down to the car you drive, the size of the house you have, do you children, should you be allowed to have more than child, etc, etc, etc.


        So, no. I don't believe we as a society, have the right (or some moral obligation) to tell someone who is obese, that we are going to take away their freedom and put them in fat camp. If that's how they want to live and enjoy it, who are we to tell them no?
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          I know you will say this doesn’t count coz it’s only one example:

          https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...4x_RnVN7McV9PY

          Comment


            Originally posted by mach schnell View Post
            I know you will say this doesn’t count coz it’s only one example:

            https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...4x_RnVN7McV9PY

            It counts, but what did the AR do a Benelli M3 couldn't have done in that situation?



            Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
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            One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

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              Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
              It counts, but what did the AR do a Benelli M3 couldn't have done in that situation?
              I have a shotgun that takes magazines, though a 20rd 12ga magazine is not great to maneuver .. So what difference does the tool make when anything can be invented? It's the act we hate and ban, not the tool.

              Comment


                Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                So what difference does the tool make when anything can be invented?
                The difference is the lethality of the stray bullet when it misses it's target and has 1000 more yards to find something to kill.

                Comment


                  Well shit, banning explosives stopped Ted Kazinsky right? They were and are far more regulated. Banning hijacking planes stopped 911 right? With the left's mentality, make it legal equals profit, but don't trust the govt because police brutality, and flys and spiders can live together because they lack guns. Just like race car engineers make faster cars with each new regulation to slow it down, the same can and does happen with guns. The current problem is more like Chicago's example of having the most gun restrictions, yet politicians aren't eager to take crime off the street, but to put it back so that they can pass more laws and saw "look we did something." If they were effective at their job in making America better, even the foolish would see that we can get along with less politicians and their underlings wasting our time and money.
                  Last edited by R3Z3N; 08-16-2019, 09:19 PM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                    Banning hijacking planes stopped 911 right?
                    bUt MUrDeR Is AlREadY iLleGal

                    Changes made after 9/11 have made air travel significantly safer for everyone involved, both on the aircraft and at the airport. You have to pass screenings to ensure you're safe to be on the aircraft, you're limited to what you can have in your possession and there are databases to track people we know who cannot be trusted.

                    Imagine if such a system were applied elsewhere, like it already is in plenty of countries around the globe (effectively I may add).

                    With the left's mentality, make it legal equals profit, but don't trust the govt because police brutality, and flys and spiders can live together because they lack guns. Just like race car engineers make faster cars with each new regulation to slow it down, the same can and does happen with guns.
                    I'm sure all these thoughts sounded great in your head, unfortunately what you produced are the unintelligible ramblings.
                    Last edited by cale; 08-16-2019, 10:30 PM.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                      I have a shotgun that takes magazines, though a 20rd 12ga magazine is not great to maneuver .. So what difference does the tool make when anything can be invented? It's the act we hate and ban, not the tool.
                      What happened after 1995? Granted if you know what happened, it was incredible the number of things that went wrong or weren't caught to allow it to happen.

                      But we made adjustments to try prevent that from happening again.

                      Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
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                      One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                        I have a shotgun that takes magazines, though a 20rd 12ga magazine is not great to maneuver .. So what difference does the tool make when anything can be invented? It's the act we hate and ban, not the tool.
                        So a shotgun is hard to maneuver, but an AR of the same length isn't hard to maneuver?

                        Is this what you're saying?
                        Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                        Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                        www.gutenparts.com
                        One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                        Comment


                          ^
                          What hes saying is a 20 round mag stuffed into his 12ga is MUCH LARGER AND HEAVIER than the 30rd mag stuffed in his AR, and that makes that particular shotgun more cumbersome to wield in tight spaces, or those more slight of frame occupants of the home my have a much harder time utilizing the weapon effectively or at all.


                          Originally posted by cale View Post

                          The difference is the lethality of the stray bullet when it misses it's target and has 1000 more yards to find something to kill.
                          You know as well as anyone else in this conversation that a 5.56 round launched from a shouldered and leveled (like it would be during a point blank home defense situation) a 5.56 chambered weapon is not going to travel anywhere close 1000 yards in the 1st place even 100% impeded (IIRC 5.56 ballistics correctly a 62gr boat tail leaves the muzzle at about 2700ft/sec and somewhere between 400-500 yards its dropped around 6 feet) . Now especially if its passed though the exterior wall of structure as it will be tumbling and decrease is travel by that much more...... Are there better choices in my opinion for the vast majority of home defense scenarios than 5.56, sure there are, but would I hesitate to use an AR platform to defend my self or family if thats what was close at hand, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

                          AR platforms in 5.56 work great for controlling common rural pests, like ground squirrels, prairie dogs, wood chucks, foxes, coyotes, opossums, trash pandas, and other destructive critters that could be dangerous or destructive to your family, livestock or property. I would not really advocate for using a 5.56 to try defend ones self from larger more dangerous predators (as my hiking handgun in bear country delivers .308 levels of performance) but "you run what you brung" so to speak, and it would likely be better than 9mm sidearm especially with a standard capacity mag
                          Originally posted by Fusion
                          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                          William Pitt-

                          Comment


                            I love our new spam filter, change a wording and fix a couple spelling errors and your shit gets flaged as spam....... good lord
                            Originally posted by Fusion
                            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                            William Pitt-

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                              I love our new spam filter, change a wording and fix a couple spelling errors and your shit gets flaged as spam....... good lord
                              I'm sure it will be resolved soon enough. There are more important things on James' plate right now.
                              Originally posted by kronus
                              would be in depending on tip slant and tube size

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                                You know as well as anyone else in this conversation that a 5.56 round launched from a shouldered and leveled (like it would be during a point blank home defense situation) a 5.56 chambered weapon is not going to travel anywhere close 1000 yards in the 1st place even 100% impeded (IIRC 5.56 ballistics correctly a 62gr boat tail leaves the muzzle at about 2700ft/sec and somewhere between 400-500 yards its dropped around 6 feet) . Now especially if its passed though the exterior wall of structure as it will be tumbling and decrease is travel by that much more...... Are there better choices in my opinion for the vast majority of home defense scenarios than 5.56, sure there are, but would I hesitate to use an AR platform to defend my self or family if thats what was close at hand, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
                                Correct it won't, but assuming the shot is level is a bold assumption at that. Swap that properly aimed shot for one that is haphazardly aimed at say the head, and that bullet just gained itself several hundred additional yards. Home defense exists in a sphere, it's not something that will be occurring on a singular plane. I think it's imperative that people who live in built up areas looking to choose a firearm for self defense think of this.

                                Lets be real though, the average firearm owner purchasing an AR under the guise of home defense is doing so without giving much thought to actual application and more to "hey this is easy and fun to shoot". Me? I'd be picking up a 10mm pistol and more importantly, picking a projectile designed for the job I'm expecting it to do. Most hunters pick an ammunition or bullet specific to the task of hunting, most AR shooters feed them whatever is affordable and don't give much thought to what's hitting the target. Sort of throw's the calculated home defense argument out of the equation.

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