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    Originally posted by Kershaw View Post

    Lol. Bundy Ranch. If anything, that's an example of why guns should be outlawed. I will admit that it went better for him (he's not dead or in jail)
    Well no matter who you side with on that clusterfuck, it didn't work out great for LaVoy Finicum lol.

    Comment


      Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
      Interesting, no response. Bueller?

      But to answer your non response question:
      Not that I agree with the guys worldviews (I do not), but a recent example that actually hit the news and had some bipartisanship support (not much, very controversial): Bundy Ranch Oregon.

      The willingness to stand up for one's rights goes hand in hand with how bad things get. Venezuelans gave up their guns in the hope the government would fulfill the promise of reducing gang crime. Now the government has turned on it's own people, and gang crime is worse with the same weapons.
      All rights granted can be removed for various reasons, so it's not the 2nd that I have an issue with at all, and I hope it didn't seem like I did previously.

      Can't agree with your words on people stand up/not for their rights, or that any meaningful analogues can be drawn between there and here as the systems and underlying societal conditions are too different to fairly compare, although I do get what you are trying to say.

      It's a big country, and there is practically no action any gov't representative or national referendum can take that will not infringe on enjoyment of life for others (or their rights, which are practically the same concept), and I strongly believe that the system of laws that exist in the US continues to evolve, sometimes in ways that we later discover are damaging, but ultimately to the continued benefit of the group. Remember, the 2nd was already someting that had to be added after the fact to clarify what was already effectively common practice, and it could as easily go the way of the 18th if it's what a majority wants.

      No matter what happens, ownership of firearms is a personal responsibility issue, and those have historically been very difficult to resolve with legislation. So it really comes down to individual responsibility, and if that trust your fellow citizens place in each other is broken or violated enough times it's only natural that any society would curtail that right that is being abused to the detriment of society.

      Comment


        I don't see how kids dying in schools isn't enough for you to change the laws. Kids dying in schools. KIDS! Kids are supposed to be playing at school not worrying about weather today they will be shot.

        Comment


          AP says 80,000 people died of the flu last year and yet overly emotional people are worried about the miniscule amount of death caused by mass shootings. What about focusing on healthcare, social security, world trade or political corruption?

          Your heartstrings are being pulled on by the media and weak willed people can't help but focus on the inconsequential idea of gun control... It's irrational to think people are coming to steal your guns or that passing a law will somehow stop sick people from doing sick things.

          The country needs to adopt California style gun laws and move on to more important issues. Low capacity magazines, background checks and cool down periods--it's a compromise where people keep their AR-15 but we limit the amount of bullets that can be put downrange over a period of time.

          I think it's sad that many people make big decision like who we elect to run our country based on gun control. The most amount of good you can do is reduce the amount of mass shooting deaths by a hundred or so which is an insignificant amount really.

          After all, last year 80,000 people died of the flu while under 900 people have died in mass shootings since the 1980s.

          Now let's get back to cars cause I need to find a good example under 9k and this thread is sidelining that!

          Comment


            You could say that about anything though.

            I don't even know where to start there, maybe if it was your 5yr old kid who got the flu you might think differently.
            I don't even know where to start there, maybe if it was your 5yr old kid who got ran over by a drunk driver you might think differently.
            I don't even know where to start there, maybe if it was your 5yr old kid who got had insufficient healthcare and died of a bacterial infection you might think differently.
            Any time you have a personal tie to something you'll think different.

            Jamie is right. The media loves pandering to highly emotional stories that have zero depth to them. A shooting is easy to understand. Healthcare law is not. So which one is going to get more views? The shooting. And everyone thinks getting shot is bad, only some people think having easy/quick/taxpayer paid access to healthcare is good (because they're short sighted, narrow minded, egocentric salt of the earth types). Again, the story that's going to get more views is going to get shown. You're more likely to commit suicide than get shot in a mass shooting. What is the likelihood you're committing suicide? Hopefully not high.
            • Heart disease: 647,457
            • Cancer: 599,108
            • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
            • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
            • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
            • Alzheimerís disease: 121,404
            • Diabetes: 83,564
            • Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
            • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
            • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173
            https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lea...s-of-death.htm

            Look at that, that's the list we should be focusing on as a country. Just so happens to be that better healthcare would be solving that issue. And, imo, better healthcare would go a long way to solving the shootings too. We might not be able to do too much about cancer, but heart disease? Respiratory disease? Diabetes? Suicide? A huge chunk of accidents results from car accidents (40,000), so hopefully as the masses get self driving cars that will go down.
            Last edited by Kershaw; 08-15-2019, 06:15 PM.
            AWD > RWD

            Comment


              Kershaw for president, and, you know, obey laws that already exist. Like, donít shoot people. Donít take other peopleís stuff. Cherish your E30 because nobody makes cars like them anymore.
              My son has the 1987 325e, 2 door, 5speed
              I daily the 1989 325i, 4 door, 5speed

              Comment


                yer well, USA has a lot of problems as you've listed. (and these aren't specific to USA either, but with ~327mil people you will have high stats regardless).

                I thought we were focusing on guns in this thread...........

                Obviously i'm not from the USA, although i did visit for a few months - nice place and would probably live in a few of the places I visited. Dunno what the solution is to all of the issues you've listed. I think the common theme across most of the issues is companies influencing politics and law makers. Figure out how to stop that and you'll do a world of good. But I don't see that happening any time soon.

                I do agree that the media focuses on select issues to distract people from bigger issues, the same happens in Australia on a daily basis. Not sure what the solution to that is either.





                Comment


                  Gun debate is such a sensitive topic. I like guns and I own more than a handful of rifles and handguns. I don't know if it is good or bad because if my money is not spend on cars and guns, it might be better to spend on midget hookers.
                  One of the amendment on the constitution regarding to liquors was banned but reinstated at some point in history. So the constitution has been amended before. Realistically to stop gun violence and crimes is get rid off all guns. Stop car accident deaths, get rid off all cars. Stop overdose deaths, get rid off all drugs and meds. You get the idea. In many populated cities in China has big problem with grab and run motorcycle thieves. China immediately ban motorcycles in the cities no question asked and the problem solved over night. There are still thieves grab and run on foot, but this ban is debatable. Now the questions is are we China.
                  sigpic
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                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Kershaw View Post
                    You could say that about anything though.





                    Any time you have a personal tie to something you'll think different.

                    Jamie is right. The media loves pandering to highly emotional stories that have zero depth to them. A shooting is easy to understand. Healthcare law is not. So which one is going to get more views? The shooting. And everyone thinks getting shot is bad, only some people think having easy/quick/taxpayer paid access to healthcare is good (because they're short sighted, narrow minded, egocentric salt of the earth types). Again, the story that's going to get more views is going to get shown. You're more likely to commit suicide than get shot in a mass shooting. What is the likelihood you're committing suicide? Hopefully not high.
                    • Heart disease: 647,457
                    • Cancer: 599,108
                    • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
                    • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
                    • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
                    • Alzheimerís disease: 121,404
                    • Diabetes: 83,564
                    • Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
                    • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
                    • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173
                    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lea...s-of-death.htm

                    Look at that, that's the list we should be focusing on as a country. Just so happens to be that better healthcare would be solving that issue. And, imo, better healthcare would go a long way to solving the shootings too. We might not be able to do too much about cancer, but heart disease? Respiratory disease? Diabetes? Suicide? A huge chunk of accidents results from car accidents (40,000), so hopefully as the masses get self driving cars that will go down.
                    If you want to eat sloppy joes, wash it down with a bottle of vodka, balloon up to 550 lbs and die of a coronary at 38..........go for it. I LITERALLY couldn't care less. Why? Because you aren't harming anyone else.


                    As for the rest of it, it's such a silly comparison. I didn't realize if I disliked a group of people I could give them cancer.
                    Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                    Chief Sales Officer, Midwest DivisionóBlunt Tech Industries

                    www.gutenparts.com
                    One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

                      If you want to eat sloppy joes, wash it down with a bottle of vodka, balloon up to 550 lbs and die of a coronary at 38..........go for it. I LITERALLY couldn't care less. Why? Because you aren't harming anyone else.


                      As for the rest of it, it's such a silly comparison. I didn't realize if I disliked a group of people I could give them cancer.
                      You realize that someone doing this is also actually harming society, right?

                      Also, if you claim to not care about those hundreds of thousands of people killing themselves every year with neglect why would you care about a few hundred getting gunned down. The result is the same, and some of them undoubtedly would have died on their own in the near future. Seems like it's a completely self-interested POV you are working from if that's the case, and I do wonder if you are actively worrying about being shot by a stranger on a regular basis.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by roguetoaster View Post

                        You realize that someone doing this is also actually harming society, right?
                        There's a difference between reaching into a pot of everyone's money to pay for medical care, and gunning their kids down in elementary school.

                        Also, if you claim to not care about those hundreds of thousands of people killing themselves every year with neglect why would you care about a few hundred getting gunned down. The result is the same, and some of them undoubtedly would have died on their own in the near future. Seems like it's a completely self-interested POV you are working from if that's the case, and I do wonder if you are actively worrying about being shot by a stranger on a regular basis.
                        Quite the sterile opinion you've got there. I for one am capable of emotionally differentiating between a self-inflicted gunshot wound because you hate life, and clinging to life because some sick bastard was pissed off so decided to try and take mine. Despite the attempts at tossing a red herring in the mix, there is still a problem to be solved here. Try and maintain focus and stop staring at the ceiling.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by cale View Post

                          There's a ... ceiling.
                          Maybe read it as if I was directing my comment to someone other than you, maybe the person I quoted, eh?

                          Comment


                            Where exactly is the problem in my post? I provided a response from my POV to a conversation that was taking place here. But hey, deflect.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by roguetoaster View Post

                              Also, if you claim to not care about those hundreds of thousands of people killing themselves every year with neglect why would you care about a few hundred getting gunned down. The result is the same, and some of them undoubtedly would have died on their own in the near future. Seems like it's a completely self-interested POV you are working from if that's the case, and I do wonder if you are actively worrying about being shot by a stranger on a regular basis.
                              If you want to live a hard lifestyle, drugs/alcohol/obesity/etc, and die early. Go for it, THAT'S YOUR CHOICE!

                              I don't suspect the kids at Sandy Hook, the patrons at Pulse in Orlando, the concert goers in Las Vegas, the shoppers at Wal-Mart, or the crowd in Ohio, CHOSE to be gunned and lose their life.


                              But sure, you're right. Those are definitely the same thing.
                              Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                              Chief Sales Officer, Midwest DivisionóBlunt Tech Industries

                              www.gutenparts.com
                              One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                              Comment


                                To get to be 300lbs it takes years of work/neglect to get there, and any time along that way it's possible to help those people.

                                To become radicalized to the point where someone wants to go to a public place and kill people takes years, and any time along the way it's possible to help those people.

                                The question is, in either case, are we as fellow humans obliged to correct their lives, and how do we do so without blithely imposing our views (which are ever evolving and might well be wrong in the future) on their lives?

                                Comment

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