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    Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
    . Are there better choices in my opinion for the vast majority of home defense scenarios than 5.56, sure there are, but would I hesitate to use an AR platform to defend my self or family if thats what was close at hand, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
    Hence the original question in my first post. So thank you for proving my point that there are multiple better options for home defense.


    Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
    Chief Sales Officer, Midwest DivisionóBlunt Tech Industries

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    Comment


      Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

      Hence the original question in my first post. So thank you for proving my point that there are multiple better options for home defense.

      And yet again, here you go trying to pigeon hole everything into black or white one size fits all categories. I listed out several other very common home uses for a AR pattern rifle that you just ignore because it does not fit your suburban/semi urban/downtown city dweller life experience where a person might need such an accurate and versatile tool on a regular and ongoing basis. In past living situations an AR platform would have been a great home defense set up (and was the primary "something went thud and crash in night" gun) where my nearest neighbors were 3/4 of a mile away, where we live now, over penetration is a concern so other options are available, and the primary choice.

      Why is it those who side with your argument always use feels vs facts and reality. why is it that I have to continually repeat myself and there is never a decent rebuttal, outside of my FEELS.......

      Originally posted by ME
      If an organization is called every one is expected to show up "Bearing ARMS" You must provide your own weapons. And since you have been called up it would not be a good Idea to show up with a fucking musket when the forces you will be facing have modern weaponry to the time. This is why its implied that we have the ability to own what ever is available to the modern foot solider, as during the revolution, the Patriots had arguably better arms than did the British, Rifles in many cases vs the brits and their smooth bore muskets.

      Now as to the "regulated" part. This does not mean you go out a play army in the woods of southern MI with your buddies on the week end. Regulated in the instance of the 2a, as written means disciplined in the use of your own arms, or proficient and know how to use them. ( Regulate 3: to fix or adjust the time, amount, degree, or rate of <IE regulate the pressure of a tire> - Websters)

      So to close "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" Means that Personal gun owner ship is necessary right for with out it there would be no Militia at all, and you argue that a Militia is NECESSARY to a free state so there for personal gun ownership is necessary to the security of a free state right. These provisions go hand in hand for with out one there would not be the other and Vice Versa.
      Originally posted by Fusion
      If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
      The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


      The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
      William Pitt-

      Comment


        Originally posted by cale View Post
        Correct it won't, but assuming the shot is level is a bold assumption at that. Swap that properly aimed shot for one that is haphazardly aimed at say the head, and that bullet just gained itself several hundred additional yards. Home defense exists in a sphere, it's not something that will be occurring on a singular plane. I think it's imperative that people who live in built up areas looking to choose a firearm for self defense think of this

        Me? I'd be picking up a 10mm pistol and more importantly, picking a projectile designed for the job I'm expecting it to do.
        You're right, ammo selection is as important (or more) than the gun, but I wouldn't be concerned with firing a 5.56 in a neighborhood any more than most handgun bullets. Just as home defense exists in a sphere, barriers are also present. Once a high velocity low weight round makes contact, they tend to yaw and lose velocity faster than a handgun bullet or shotgun slug. While that isn't a rule and doesn't mean it's no longer dangerous, the chances of it blasting through a layer of drywall, insulation, exterior boarding, siding, then straight line traveling 20-50 yards to your neighbors and going through the same barriers aren't as likely. You can argue the unpredictability of what happens after the bullet begins to tumble is more dangerous, but I don't see how it's any more likely to hit a bystander than any other heavier bullet that is more likely to maintain velocity and trajectory.

        For many people, becoming proficient with a handgun isn't as easy as with a rifle. Between stronger recoil impulse, shorter sight radius of handguns, and being more susceptible to misses caused by poor hand form/flinch/reflex/etc, I've found it's a lot easier for people to pick up an AR and easily make accurate hits over a handgun. I've taken 20 or more virgin shooters to the range and that has been the case for most of them. Many shooting instructors will also echo that sentiment. I think we'd both agree that most people don't train nearly enough to be considered very proficient with any gun. In that case, the gun that is easier to pick up and shoot well seems like it would in fact be the better option. I want to make it abundantly clear that I'm not advocating that everyone use an AR15 for home defense, but to dismiss it as not being a practical option is silly.

        Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
        Hence the original question in my first post. So thank you for proving my point that there are multiple better options for home defense.
        Except he didn't prove your point. He said it wouldn't be his first choice. And while an AR in 5.56 isn't my first choice either, it is the option a lot of people choose for the reasons listed above. In addition to being intuitive, being lightweight, relatively compact, and high capacity make it an ideal option in some cases. Just like when a novice asks "what handgun should I buy?" there is no one size fits all option for everyone.

        In response to your AR/shotgun question above- an AR that is the same length as a shotgun is going to be more maneuverable, simply for being better balanced and lighter weight. Just give a novice shooter an AR15 to hold and aim, then a shotgun to see how their entire stance changes. The pill that seems to be too hard to swallow for people is that it really is one of the most versatile platforms ever designed and can easily be configured to your specific desired use- be it home defense, plinking cans, long range target shooting, competition shooting, hunting, etc. While it might not be the best at everything at the same time, with the vast aftermarket and factory parts support, it can be purpose built as a viable option for all of those things.

        Comment


          If it wouldn't be his first choice, that means he thinks there are better options for the job.


          Or do you disagree with that interpretation of words?

          Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
          Chief Sales Officer, Midwest DivisionóBlunt Tech Industries

          www.gutenparts.com
          One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

          Comment


            This thread is a waste of time. Z31maniac + Cale clearly live in little bubbles. You guys are also clearly not interested in giving any ground and truly hearing what anyone else has to say. You are obviously here to shout your position from the rooftops, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

            Not everyone lives in a neighborhood. Believe it or not, in 2019, some of us live in rural areas with limited cell phone coverage and slow emergency response times. Some of us live on more than a quarter-acre. In the end, it doesnít matter where we live - we are adults who make our own decisions about what tool is right to use in defense of ourselves and our families. Careful consideration for whatís behind your target has always been a foundation of responsible gun ownership and use.

            This pontificating about how someone hasnít chosen the correct caliber or the correct weapon if they donít agree with your own choice of caliber or weapon is just horseshit. We all have the FREEDOM to choose for ourselves.

            Donít let the word FREEDOM scare you. Itís actually a wonderful concept. We donít have to be subject to your rule and your decisions as to what we need and donít need, thank the Lord.

            The people you should be concerned about are not going to be hanging out here on R3V taking part in your pretend discussion. The people you should be concerned about act with total disregard for the law and common societal values. They donít care what the rules are.

            For the rest of us law-abiding citizens, we will prepare ourselves for the day that we hope never comes, in the manner that we see fit.

            Comment


              Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
              If it wouldn't be his first choice, that means he thinks there are better options for the job.


              Or do you disagree with that interpretation of words?
              I didn't realize selective reading was a valid way to form an argument.

              Comment


                Originally posted by mach schnell View Post
                This thread is a waste of time. Z31maniac + Cale clearly live in little bubbles. You guys are also clearly not interested in giving any ground and truly hearing what anyone else has to say. You are obviously here to shout your position from the rooftops, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

                Not everyone lives in a neighborhood. Believe it or not, in 2019, some of us live in rural areas with limited cell phone coverage and slow emergency response times. Some of us live on more than a quarter-acre. In the end, it doesnít matter where we live - we are adults who make our own decisions about what tool is right to use in defense of ourselves and our families. Careful consideration for whatís behind your target has always been a foundation of responsible gun ownership and use.

                This pontificating about how someone hasnít chosen the correct caliber or the correct weapon if they donít agree with your own choice of caliber or weapon is just horseshit. We all have the FREEDOM to choose for ourselves.

                Donít let the word FREEDOM scare you. Itís actually a wonderful concept. We donít have to be subject to your rule and your decisions as to what we need and donít need, thank the Lord.

                The people you should be concerned about are not going to be hanging out here on R3V taking part in your pretend discussion. The people you should be concerned about act with total disregard for the law and common societal values. They donít care what the rules are.

                For the rest of us law-abiding citizens, we will prepare ourselves for the day that we hope never comes, in the manner that we see fit.
                Freedom doesn't scare me. That's an interesting position to take.

                Nor does the "gubmint gonna take our guns" scare me either, because it's not happening. It didn't happen in the 111th Congress with Democrats controlling the House, the Senate, and the White House.


                Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                Chief Sales Officer, Midwest DivisionóBlunt Tech Industries

                www.gutenparts.com
                One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                Comment


                  Is this thread just a successful display of trolling, or are you actually this inept when it comes to being able to respond to opposition?

                  Comment


                    You guys do realize how many different chamberings and barrel lengths the AR platform now comes in right? You can use it from a practicality standpoint for, damn near anything now, other than probably true big game hunting and fowl. This whole thread is like two old timers arguing about weather 30-30 is better than 30-06 for whitetail hunting. It's all dependent on a given specific scenario. An apartment setting and ranch will necessitate 2 completely different set of tools.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by myinfernalbmw View Post
                      Is this thread just a successful display of trolling, or are you actually this inept when it comes to being able to respond to opposition?
                      Yes. I'm actually this inept. I don't understand the English language.
                      Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                      Chief Sales Officer, Midwest DivisionóBlunt Tech Industries

                      www.gutenparts.com
                      One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                      Comment


                        Thank you for clarifying. Between ignoring half of sleeves response and his context entirety, you had me believing that.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by mach schnell View Post
                          This thread is a waste of time. Z31maniac + Cale clearly live in little bubbles. You guys are also clearly not interested in giving any ground and truly hearing what anyone else has to say. You are obviously here to shout your position from the rooftops, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

                          Not everyone lives in a neighborhood. Believe it or not, in 2019, some of us live in rural areas with limited cell phone coverage and slow emergency response times. Some of us live on more than a quarter-acre. In the end, it doesnít matter where we live - we are adults who make our own decisions about what tool is right to use in defense of ourselves and our families. Careful consideration for whatís behind your target has always been a foundation of responsible gun ownership and use.

                          This pontificating about how someone hasnít chosen the correct caliber or the correct weapon if they donít agree with your own choice of caliber or weapon is just horseshit. We all have the FREEDOM to choose for ourselves.

                          Donít let the word FREEDOM scare you. Itís actually a wonderful concept. We donít have to be subject to your rule and your decisions as to what we need and donít need, thank the Lord.

                          The people you should be concerned about are not going to be hanging out here on R3V taking part in your pretend discussion. The people you should be concerned about act with total disregard for the law and common societal values. They donít care what the rules are.

                          For the rest of us law-abiding citizens, we will prepare ourselves for the day that we hope never comes, in the manner that we see fit.
                          Says the guy who's entire post centers around some boogeyman Govt scenario. For someone who calls out others, you sure do fail miserably at "giving any ground" or actually trying to respond to the arguments being provided to you. Ignore the specifics, create a generic rebuttal that falls back on "it's muh freedoms" despite the entire premise of this thread being to question how limiting those freedoms in the past effected you.

                          I guess this thought exercise proved too difficult for some.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by cale View Post

                            Says the guy who's entire post centers around some boogeyman Govt scenario. For someone who calls out others, you sure do fail miserably at "giving any ground" or actually trying to respond to the arguments being provided to you. Ignore the specifics, create a generic rebuttal that falls back on "it's muh freedoms" despite the entire premise of this thread being to question how limiting those freedoms in the past effected you.

                            I guess this thought exercise proved too difficult for some.
                            You are that kid that knows everything because he read it on the internet, but has never actually put down his iPad and stepped out into the real world. Do yourself a favor - spend some money on plane tickets and travel outside of the US, away from the comfort of Starbucks, see some things, then come back to us when you have a grey hair on your head. I bet you wonít be half the ignorant shit you are today.

                            Comment


                              Oh, but all US citizens have have been giving up slice after slice of their 2A freedoms for generations.

                              Yes, the government has slowly been coming for your guns. Our government is no more altruistic than it's leaders, who have shown their distrust in the people of America when they do not include themselves in the laws they write, SUCH AS GUN LAWS AND HEALTHCARE.

                              Cale, you have an understanding of guns, but you prefer to use your knowledge for the dissemination of fallacies and fleeting feelings rather than facts and history.

                              Comment


                                Cale's from Canada so...
                                Last edited by myinfernalbmw; 08-20-2019, 07:11 AM.

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