BAR’d N52 swap. Will I be the first?

[benz-tech]

I acquired an 07 donor car. Before I put this project in full motion, I’m hoping to get some answers on some possible non-starter issues.
1. This seems like the most difficult one. Factory catalysts in the the factory location. Even with TH lollipop, even if I ‘massage’ the floor, is there a decent chance at getting both the main and rear cats to fit. I can test fit also but I’m looking have any of you even attempted to mount it with the stock cats? Any insight would be appreciated.

2. Are there any issues with a steel oil pan and the magnesium bed plate?

3. MSV80 thoughts. I plan to use nearly every necessary control unit. Maybe a few arduino boards as needed. Needs to be able to run monitors which means the has to see wheel speed and outside temp and, and, and.

Please don’t tell me it’s impossible. I really need to switch out my M44 (yes already swapped) to something lightweight, powerful and with the proper cylinder count.

[2mAn]

I say go for it!!

Id start a conversation/ relationship with a Referee and let him know your plan and he can help you. They generally are willing to help when it’s done properly and legally

[hoveringuy]

1. This seems like the most difficult one. Factory catalysts in the the factory location. Even with TH lollipop, even if I ‘massage’ the floor, is there a decent chance at getting both the main and rear cats to fit. I can test fit also but I’m looking have any of you even attempted to mount it with the stock cats? Any insight would be appreciated.

The N52 doesn't have pre-cats and cats, it just has "the cats...". I have S54 headers that poke out pretty far, and they fit... If you can get a rough measurement of how far proud they sit from the side of the engine we could compare to the E30 body. 3D scans would be wicked, of course!

2. Are there any issues with a steel oil pan and the magnesium bed plate?

The bedplate is aluminum, it bolts to the magnesium block. Steel pan is fine, but the bigger-better pan is the aluminum one. Either is fine.

3. MSV80 thoughts. I plan to use nearly every necessary control unit. Maybe a few arduino boards as needed. Needs to be able to run monitors which means the has to see wheel speed and outside temp and, and, and.

MSV80 should be no problem. I'm pretty sure there's CAS delete but it sounds like you would even have the CAS module and such. Outside temp comes from one of the other body modules, but I see a ton of stuff on my MSV70, too.

Please don’t tell me it’s impossible. I really need to switch out my M44 (yes already swapped) to something lightweight, powerful and with the proper cylinder count.

Do it!

[benz-tech]

Thanks Hoveringuy for all you have done in pioneering this swap. I need to use both the main cats on the side of the engine and the two rear cats. It looks like the tightest fit will be right at the rcab.
I was only aware of your steel pan, but just now saw that you made an an aluminum one. I’m not tracking this car and would consider buying someone’s second hand less than pretty first try.

[Striker01]

Thanks Hoveringuy for all you have done in pioneering this swap. I need to use both the main cats on the side of the engine and the two rear cats. It looks like the tightest fit will be right at the rcab.
I was only aware of your steel pan, but just now saw that you made an an aluminum one. I’m not tracking this car and would consider buying someone’s second hand less than pretty first try.

I don't know about the stock n52 manifolds, I didn't get them with my engine. They were pulled for recycling. I know the euro N53 headers won't fit. Would the referee let you use something like the PLM cats, they are tiny and I used them with my N53 headers, in the stock location.

I will be pulling my n52 steel pan in the next month or so for the aluminum version, only issue is that I have the cutout for the e30 m20 level sender, been on a year and still dry. You would only need to buy and modify a dipstick, I need it for the new pan.

[benz-tech]

UPDATE: I spoke with the referee today. It wasn’t encouraging. I know this forum is essentially public so I would encourage anyone that really wants to know what was said to PM me. Ina nutshell, he feels the fuel tank would need to be swapped, which is not what the law reads. In fact the law reads the opposite stating the evap system can be used from the OBD1 vehicle. He is saying the ENTIRE fuel system would need to swap. Saying that every swap he’s seen has swapped the donor tank. His argument is that the fuel lines and fittings can’t be modified- but the directions indicate integration which would mean there is some modification that’s does not affect functionality. Air box is cake. Exhaust might require some floor modification. Rear cats can be maneuvered to fit as long as they are similar distance from the mains. That leaves the tank. And the ability to run all emission monitors. In my donor, I will be deleting DSC functions down to a minimum to see if DME sets a fault. My hope is that i only need one sensor for to DSC for road speed to the kombi and DME. I’m pretty sure I’ll need outside temp. Not sure what the sensor is wired to. Would need that module also. Cue Monty Python: “I’m not dead yet”. I have the time. The ability, and most of the resources to do this, soooo I’m not dead. Yet.

[Caperix]

I'm guessing the tank needs to be swapped due to the evap monitors. I know here in NC we are allowed one monitor to not be set and still pass an emissions test, sounds like California may be different and they may be looking extra close on a sawp. The n52 evap system uses a pump that pressurizes the tank & vent system with the purge valve closed to check for pressure drop. I would think it could be adapted to the e30 tank, but would require relocating some components.
How are they checking for a tune? Things like EWS can be deleted without effecting the emissions components, do they have a way of knowing what has been changed or are they just making sure all monitors pass?
It's some extra steps and it sounds like some things are up to interpretation, but should be doable.

[Northern]

Could this be as simple as finding another ref, who maybe understands the verbiage sufficiently? lol

[projectJTv4]

How are they checking for a tune? Things like EWS can be deleted without effecting the emissions components, do they have a way of knowing what has been changed or are they just making sure all monitors pass?

From my discussion with a ref, although an EWS delete does not affect emissions, it would fail as the DME has technically been modified.

PCM/ECU verification
• 2000-Newer Vehicles:
o Engine changes require an invoice from the manufacturer dealer or licensed automotive repair dealer (ARD) verifying in writing that the ECM/PCM programming, functionality and CVN and Cal ID is correct for the donor vehicle.

•96-99 Vehicles:
o Engine changes require an invoice from the manufacturer dealer or a licensed automotive repair dealer (ARD) verifying in writing that the ECU/PCM is correct for the OEM application (Year, Make, Model and Engine).
o The invoice should contain PCM/ECU part number and verification that all OBDII system support and functionality is the same OEM configuration as the donor vehicle.

•95-Older Vehicles:
o Non-OBDII engine changes require you to identify the engine and ECU is correct for the donor vehicle.
o The check engine light (service engine soon, Malfunction indicator lamp) must be functional and operating per the specifications of the donor vehicle.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/e30-technical-forums/24v-engine-swaps/m50-52-s50-52/195713-california-bar-smog-engine-swap-thread?p=9921437#post9921437

They don't need the VIN from the donor car, I was just hopeful that they would be able to run the donor car vin and see that it was originally sold in CA and thus was originally compliant with CA emissions. No such luck so I had to go to a dealership and have them write how the ECU was not modified and was a California compliant car. $200 later, I had this:


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[Caperix]

It sounds like they have no way of verifying if the dme has been flashed or not. BMW releases multiple programming updates over the life of the engine, some of the newer cars do a tuning check on every fault memory read, I have not seen MSV70/8x do this. If you are lucky all you need to do is have a BMW shop scan the DME and verify that no check sum errors are stored. I'm not sure how the RSA delete that is used for most MSV70/80 reflashes will show up during this.