Newly rebuilt M20 AFM - $70 (Standard MF20040) NOT a forsale thread

[Gregs///M]

Ok, go put a CPS in an e30 with 1200ohms and see what happens. I don't trust the internet or "how to" books, I trust experience. Bently also says to torque the valve cover bolts to a torque that will snap the studs off. If you really were an e30 enthusiast and not here trying to make money on them, you would know about the Bently mistakes.

It seems you have more errors than the Bentely. Is it TPS you are referring to, not the CPS? Heck, I don't even know what you are talking about. First you're talking about AFM's, then you bring TPS into the thread, now your bringing CPS into the thread. Just stop.

How about we just keep it to topic? AFM's.

Just because you have experience, does not mean you were taught correctly in the first place. This especially applies to electronics.

I'm not here solely to make money. I just profit on people who are not in a position to test/rebuild their own AFM's. I charge exponentially less than other rebuild services so I'm more of a valuable member of this forum that you are. In fact, I'm a long time BMW CCA member and provide advanced technical help on this forum, Bimmerforums, and M3forum. I've have members private message me WEEKLY to comment how well I've helped them solve their problems.

Do us and future members by discontinuing your comments into this thread. We need accurate and reliable information. I'm not disrespecting you personally, I just cannot allow false statements to be written without correcting them in advanced topics such as AFM rebuilding. Please no more posts from you. Just move on.

[ForcedFirebird]

Exponentially less? This thread is about a $70 rebuilt AFM. $50 less than yours? You came in to push your product.

[Gregs///M]

That's the point of this thread....What's up with the $70 rebuilt AFM? I'm here because I'm curious too.

Try calling other fuel injection repair facilities and quote an AFM repair.

As far as I'm concerned, my AFM's are proven.

"Greg,

I tossed the box the AFM came in, what's the mailing address to return my old AFM? Remember, I'd like to see what my old one scopes out at!

Your refurb'd AFM really makes a difference in how the car runs and the overall smoothness and driveability. Yes, you can quote me to others if needed.

Thanks again for a quality service.

John"

This is a direct quote today from one of my customer's. Thanks again John!

So if you want to trust your $70 AFM, go ahead. I'm not forcing anyone to buy anything. However, your advice on reference voltage vs DME compatibility, among various other things you have said have been false and typos. You said it yourself. So please, let's end this, keep your comments to yourself.

[noid]

"Before testing the switch, check that the switch is receiving
voltage. With the ignition on, there should be at least 5 volts
(VOG) between the center terminal and either of the outer
terminals of the switch harness • connector. It voltage is. not
present, test the electronic control unit as described under 5.4
Electrical Tests."

As per the Bentley manual. 5V reference voltage for the TPS. Same with the AFM. This applies to most, if not all, E30's.

ForcedFirebird, you have too many errors and typos. It is my suggestion that you no longer post anymore into this thread. There will be thousands of people who will read this thread in the future, and those people will need to rely on reliable and accurate information.

You and Noid have accused me of being incorrect and questioned my knowledge on AFM operation without having any professional background in electronics technology. I have thoroughly proved by research and findings. In addition I have provided the public advanced knowledge required to perform/test their own AFM's and posted some data that they can reference.

I don't care how many articles and videos are out there detailing AFM testing, I have clearly explained that most of those are inaccurate and incorrect. The only reference information that should be trusted is mine.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...83#post3152483

I never questioned your ability to use an oscilloscope, if I did please reference because I think you are mistaken in that regard.

My main problem is that I do not classify your service as a rebuild, or anywhere close to a rebuild. I would have a lesser problem with that if you weren't charging the E30 community astronomical rates ($120) for using zero new parts. Even if I thought bending an arm was worth $120 you have already admitted that bending the arm would in and of itself make the arm travel a longer/shorter distance because it is an oval track.

Your 'reference' AFM is merely the same idea of a bent arm. If you are charging $120/unit at least have the decency to buy a Bosch rebuild unit, or dare I say a new Bosch unit to use as a reference. Dare I venture to say that you do not have the Bosch specs? Dare I say what you think is the bosch specs is merely references taken from a fuel injection corp unit?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

There is no reason to be condescending about the $70 unit, and reference places that charge exponentially more as making you the affordable option. It would be in your business interests to test your competition and PROVE that your units are superior and worth the $$$.

At the end of the day, this thread was started without any intention to venture into your service. Rather to broaden the knowledge of what other rebuild services offer in their rebuilt units.

[Gregs///M]

I never questioned your ability to use an oscilloscope, if I did please reference because I think you are mistaken in that regard.

My main problem is that I do not classify your service as a rebuild, or anywhere close to a rebuild. I would have a lesser problem with that if you weren't charging the E30 community astronomical rates ($120) for using zero new parts. Even if I thought bending an arm was worth $120 you have already admitted that bending the arm would in and of itself make the arm travel a longer/shorter distance because it is an oval track.

Your 'reference' AFM is merely the same idea of a bent arm. If you are charging $120/unit at least have the decency to buy a Bosch rebuild unit, or dare I say a new Bosch unit to use as a reference. Dare I venture to say that you do not have the Bosch specs? Dare I say what you think is the bosch specs is merely references taken from a fuel injection corp unit?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

At the end of the day, this thread was started without any intention to venture into your service. Rather to broaden the knowledge of what other rebuild services offer in their rebuilt units.

You did NOT question my ability to use an oscilloscope but you did question the validity of how important it is to use to test the AFM. You questioned the importance of oscilloscope vs DMM.

$120 is the price one would pay for my expertise knowledge and for the tools that I use to qualify these AFM's for use again. I call it refurbishing them. You can call it what you want. Whatever its called, it works or else I would have members bashing me on my thread correct? But none have complained and most have said all but great things. $120 also includes a $20 core charge, plus I still have to buy AFM's. They just don't magically appear on my doorstep. I need to buy the AFM's.

The parts are still good and do not need to be replaced. They just need to be cleaned and adjusted. Then verified. Verification is the most important step and I provide that.

Yes, I take my specs from a recently refurbished Fuel Injection Corp AFM. I trust them and you should too. They've been in business longer than most members here been alive. They reference directly from OEM BMW specs.

I'm only here to help the community by providing technical information and/or providing reliable refurbishment services.

[noid]

You DID not question my ability to use an oscilloscope but you did question the validity of how important it is to use to test the AFM. You questioned the importance of oscilloscope vs DMM.

I never once mentioned a DMM. What I said was that this "rebuild" only provides proof that you did not mess up your customers unit, after bending the arm. The actual use of the oscilloscope does not make or assist the AFM is preforming any better or worse. If someone did the same thing you are doing at home, their rebuild would be no better or no worse just because they didn't use an oscilloscope. It a great device, for validating, but is it a tool for actually changing anything? No it is not.

$120 is the price one would pay for my expertise knowledge and for the tools that I use to qualify these AFM's for use again. I call it refurbishing them. You can call it what you want. Whatever its called, it works or else I would have members bashing me on my thread correct? But none have complained and most have said all but great things. $120 also includes a $20 core charge, plus I still have to buy AFM's. They just don't magically appear on my doorstep. I need to buy the AFM's.

Again, I never questioned if your final product worked. Rather if it could be rebuild better, and if it should be done cheaper (my opinion I accept that you have your own, there is nothing wrong with that).

The parts are still good and do not need to be replaced. They just need to be cleaned and adjusted. Then verified. Verification is the most important step and I provide that.

The verification part is the most important step for you, because it provides an empirical way to show that you have actually done something (albeit only bent an arm) and most importantly that you aren't sending back a unit that does not work. I would argue that the most import part are the parts within.

Yes, I take my specs from a recently refurbished Fuel Injection Corp AFM. I trust them and you should too. They've been in business longer than most members here been alive. They reference directly from OEM BMW specs.

I'm only here to help the community by providing technical information and/or providing reliable refurbishment services.

Bosch has been around longer then any human being that is currently alive, what is your point? If I follow your logic because Bosch is older they must have a better unit. Which is odd because I thought they has the best unit because they are the ones who created it. On either count, if logic follows you are working with an inferior unit. I advice you to follow your own logic and get the best unit to reference off of.

Hersay doesn't work in court nor does it work here, just because you THINK fuel injection corp reference directly from OEM BMW Specs does not mean they actually do, or even that they are able to conform to specs. Perhaps they conform to what they envision are their acceptable specs. Perhaps Bosch and BMW both told Fuel injection corp to shove it (likely case) and they dont have the OEM specs. Perhaps it is most profitable (at the expensive of the customer) to only bend the arm, rather then do a full and proper rebuild. Perhaps they are wrong.

It is funny that you rail on ForcedFirebird for providing inaccurate information (whether true or not). Yet you are riddled with hersay, inferior reference measurements, and units.

[Gregs///M]

I never once mentioned a DMM. What I said was that this "rebuild" only provides proof that you did not mess up your customers unit, after bending the arm. The actual use of the oscilloscope does not make or assist the AFM is preforming any better or worse. If someone did the same thing you are doing at home, their rebuild would be no better or no worse just because they didn't use an oscilloscope. It a great device, for validating, but is it a tool for actually changing anything? No it is not.

Please see post #31 and #34 for why an oscilloscope must be used. I don't mess up anything, I repair damaged AFM or AFM that are no longer providing accurate electrical feedback. I'm not checking if I messed up anything, I am merely verifying the AFM is ok for use in a car. If you see no value in having your AFM validated before being sent to you, that sucks for you.

Again, I never questioned if your final product worked. Rather if it could be rebuild better, and if it should be done cheaper (my opinion I accept that you have your own, there is nothing wrong with that).

Cheaper, maybe. Better, maybe. Perhaps you should get into AFM rebuilds and give your services and time for free. Help out the community brother! Go for it.

The verification part is the most important step for you, because it provides an empirical way to show that you have actually done something (albeit only bent an arm) and most importantly that you aren't sending back a unit that does not work. I would argue that the most import part are the parts within.

The parts are not worn except the landing pads of the electrical contacts. You do not need to replace the wiper arm, or electrical contacts. They just need cleaning and adjusting. You don't seem to get that. Replacing them is will achieve no more than cleaning them, except the costs will rise for the customer.

I do not just simply bent the wiper arm. Please see post #33 or my thread on AFM rebuild for the 6 steps used to refurbish my AFM's.

Bosch has been around longer then any human being that is currently alive, what is your point? If I follow your logic because Bosch is older they must have a better unit. Which is odd because I thought they has the best unit because they are the ones who created it. On either count, if logic follows you are working with an inferior unit. I advice you to follow your own logic and get the best unit to reference off of.

I don't believe Bosch offers rebuild services on AFM's. You would have to buy a new one. My Fuel Injection AFM is within spec, yes I trust them, and my customers have verified my results.

Hersay doesn't work in court nor does it work here, just because you THINK fuel injection corp reference directly from OEM BMW Specs does not mean they actually do, or even that they are able to conform to specs. Perhaps they conform to what they envision are their acceptable specs. Perhaps Bosch and BMW both told Fuel injection corp to shove it (likely case) and they dont have the OEM specs. Perhaps it is most profitable (at the expensive of the customer) to only bend the arm, rather then do a full and proper rebuild. Perhaps they are wrong.

FI corp has been around providing quality services for the Bay Area for decades. If you don't trust specialized business like them, I'm sorry for you.

It is funny that you rail on ForcedFirebird for providing inaccurate information (whether true or not). Yet you are riddled with hersay, inferior reference measurements, and units.

ForcedFirebird did provide inaccurate information and admitted it on this thread. This is irrefutable proof he was wrong, by personal admitting it. My posts are not hersay, I don't acquire my information through other people or by guessing. If you feel bentley manual specifications and actual oscilloscope measurements are inferior, then something is wrong with you.

I acquire actual real measurements using specialized quality electrical testing tools and reference those vs. Bentley manual specifications. To say my measurements, which I've posted in this thread, are inferior only makes you look bad.

If your going to bash by electrical expertise, then you should also have the professional electrical experience and knowledge to support your claims. Perhaps you should involve your daddy if you really have that much of a gripe against my research.

[Gregs///M]

Do any other r3v members share Noid's and ForcedFirebird's opinion against my AFM refurbishing services? Anyone else feel my research and results are inaccurate, inferior or false in any way?

If so I'd love to hear it from someone OTHER than Noid or ForcedFirebird.

[bernzpeed]

I've personally taken home a refurbished AFM from Greg and have seen him test the actual unit and compare it to the a defective AFM. He knows what he's doing and obviously what he's talking about and I would trust his work and knowledge. I'd definitely acquire his services again.

[ForcedFirebird]

Looking at your started threads, you have not contributed to this community other than offering your services.

You say not to trust the internet, but you offered $5 to anyone who could give you CTS values over the internet.

You said don't trust FF, yet anyone who has been here knows my posts always are about helping others.

Do you even own an e30?

[ForcedFirebird]

I've personally taken home a refurbished AFM from Greg and have seen him test the actual unit and compare it to the a defective AFM. He knows what he's doing and obviously what he's talking about and I would trust his work and knowledge. I'd definitely acquire his services again.

Not questioning he can verify if your AFM is working. Selling "refurbished" AFM's with a bent wiper to contact a fresh part of the track is another story.

[jeffnhiscars]

Being pretty much a live and let live kinda guy I may regret jumping in to this.

I do not have the technical expertise you have so have neither the ability nor a reason to question the merits of your position. However, I do have some observations which have stood out in my mind even before this thread came along and since the door has been flung wide open....

1. I notice that every time there's a post relating to anything electrical, you seem to jump in with an ad for your services. While Im a fan of self promotion I think there is a time and place for it (as well as rules) and that it gets old.

2. is that I see a pattern of you knocking everyone either because they don't know what they are doing, do not live up to your standards etc etc. Each to his own but it has always been my belief that speaking well of what you do and why it makes sense and offers good value is a far more effective way to promote your services rather than putting down the competition.

Again, I am not here to get in to a technical debate (nor any debate) but to say that while you may be the most competent repair car around, you could work on your marketing and diplomacy skills a bit and maybe have better results.

This is just my opinion and others may or may not share it..but you asked...we now return control of your TV to you

[ForcedFirebird]

Being pretty much a live and let live kinda guy I may regret jumping in to this.

I do not have the technical expertise you have so have neither the ability nor a reason to question the merits of your position. However, I do have some observations which have stood out in my mind even before this thread came along and since the door has been flung wide open....

1. I notice that every time there's a post relating to anything electrical, you seem to jump in with an ad for your services. While Im a fan of self promotion I think there is a time and place for it (as well as rules) and that it gets old.

2. is that I see a pattern of you knocking everyone either because they don't know what they are doing, do not live up to your standards etc etc. Each to his own but it has always been my belief that speaking well of what you do and why it makes sense and offers good value is a far more effective way to promote your services rather than putting down the competition.

Again, I am not here to get in to a technical debate (nor any debate) but to say that while you may be the most competent repair car around, you could work on your marketing and diplomacy skills a bit and maybe have better results.

This is just my opinion and others may or may not share it..but you asked...we now return control of your TV to you

If this was Facebook, totally like this comment.

[noid]

Please see post #31 and #34 for why an oscilloscope must be used. I don't mess up anything, I repair damaged AFM or AFM that are no longer providing accurate electrical feedback. I'm not checking if I messed up anything, I am merely verifying the AFM is ok for use in a car. If you see no value in having your AFM validated before being sent to you, that sucks for you.




Cheaper, maybe. Better, maybe. Perhaps you should get into AFM rebuilds and give your services and time for free. Help out the community brother! Go for it.



The parts are not worn except the landing pads of the electrical contacts. You do not need to replace the wiper arm, or electrical contacts. They just need cleaning and adjusting. You don't seem to get that. Replacing them is will achieve no more than cleaning them, except the costs will rise for the customer.

I do not just simply bent the wiper arm. Please see post #33 or my thread on AFM rebuild for the 6 steps used to refurbish my AFM's.






I don't believe Bosch offers rebuild services on AFM's. You would have to buy a new one. My Fuel Injection AFM is within spec, yes I trust them, and my customers have verified my results.



FI corp has been around providing quality services for the Bay Area for decades. If you don't trust specialized business like them, I'm sorry for you.



ForcedFirebird did provide inaccurate information and admitted it on this thread. This is irrefutable proof he was wrong, by personal admitting it. My posts are not hersay, I don't acquire my information through other people or by guessing. If you feel bentley manual specifications and actual oscilloscope measurements are inferior, then something is wrong with you.

I acquire actual real measurements using specialized quality electrical testing tools and reference those vs. Bentley manual specifications. To say my measurements, which I've posted in this thread, are inferior only makes you look bad.

If your going to bash by electrical expertise, then you should also have the professional electrical experience and knowledge to support your claims. Perhaps you should involve your daddy if you really have that much of a gripe against my research.

Before we go any further, I do help out the community for free. Please see the thread titled "Offering free (yes free) garage, tools and help at my place in North York/Toronto" on maxbimmer. I also provide aftermarket parts, and I attempt to beat any publicly advertised price anywhere. Lets not forget I have also provided members here euro engines for a price that was far far lower then any competitor. I also run a website specifically to provide other enthusiasts free information. I have also been here since 2008. Do not talk to me about helping out the community.

I can see your argumentation structure is limited. For some unfounded reason you continue to parade your ability to use and understand oscilloscopes. Please see beyond the oscilloscope and address the real concerns. The problem is not your ABILITY to use an oscilloscope or to copy the reference points of another unit. I am not sure how I can simplify this any more for you, I feel as though I am spoon feeding now:

1. Any rebuild facility will have an oscilloscope.
2. An oscilloscope is not required if done at home, because it is a validating device, and nothing more.
3. It should be a cheaper service
4. It can be rebuilt better
5. Bending the arm up or down will make it travel a different distance because the surface is in an oval shape
6. Rebuilt Bosch unit - 0 986 280 003 New Bosch unit - 0 280 202 082
7. FI corp is a company that started in the late 70's in a guys garage and now employees 30 employees, it hardly has the scope or resources to play with the big guys. Especially Bosch.
8. Your research and reference points are based off a unit that has also had its arm bent, therefore your copying not researching. You do not have a new Bosch unit to reference, thus making you use hersay from FI corp.
9. You are a technician not an engineer. You lack the scope, and education to properly rebuild the unit. Lets not forget that I am NOT saying that you are not competent in what you advertise. You are. 'Properly' does not refer to following what you advertise rather as to the extent of not having the connections to gain factory specs, parts, nor equipment that Bosch would have. There is a possibility that a large company would have enough presence to strike a deal to use Bosch' proprietary information and be able to afford equipment and be able to reman a new board. Hence this thread and the desire to see how other units are rebuild.

Guess what? I am neither a technician nor an engineer (albeit I did take electrical engineering classes in secondary school :rofl:) . Do you see me rebuilding AFM's? No. Do you see me challenging your knowledge in using an oscilloscope? No. Do you see me questioning if you are able to preform this refurb? No. Did I ever say your customers arent happy? No. Did I say I can appreciate that people see value in your service? Yes.

Get your shit straight man, I am not and NEVER was questioning your ability to preform a bending of the arm and a verification. You are heavily confused as to what I am challenging you on. I am not sure if that is just you ignoring what I am saying, or just not understanding what I am saying.

For all we know BWD buys up genuine Bosch rebuilt units in bulk and resells them. So many possibilities. Could also be a unit that is rusted, bent, water damaged, or has a Chinese board.

No one is calling your service bad. There is just a desire to find out if other companies do it better and for cheaper. At the end of the day you aren't going to buy a Bosch unit to reference nor will you test your competition in fear that they may be rebuilding it better and offering their units for cheaper. Thus this conversation is moot.

[Gregs///M]

Looking at your started threads, you have not contributed to this community other than offering your services.

You say not to trust the internet, but you offered $5 to anyone who could give you CTS values over the internet.

You said don't trust FF, yet anyone who has been here knows my posts always are about helping others.

Do you even own an e30?

I don't start threads to help people (sometimes I do) but I comment on QUESTIONS people asking in various sections such as car audio, general technical, M20, etc. You can search the thousands of threads from bimmerforums (member since 2006.)

I asked specifically for MEASURED values. I own an E30 and E46 M3. I've also owned an E28, and E34. I've professionally worked on several hundreds of BMW's across all chassis'.