ForcedFirebird's m20 dyno thread.

[SLEEPYDUB]

Over the last few months we opened up a dyno tuning shop, DyNomad Mobile Tuning, here in North Louisiana. Since we have opened, I've had very little time to mess with my own M20 E30, but yesterday after installing our lift, we had a little free time to see what the ol girl puts down, and we were not disappointed. This car has been sitting for the last 6 months. The tank was still 1/8th full of old Ethanol, so of course we used it. The battery was dead and had to be jumped off to even get onto the rollers. Air filter was dirty and is small, but we left it on.

Here's the run down on the setup:
Engine: Unknown Mileage STOCK B27 Short Block with borrowed #2 piston, rod, and bearings from a destroyed motor we had laying around.
Head: STOCK head gasket with ARP Studs, 280/274 cam, HD Rockers and Springs, Welded Coolant Channels.
Turbo Setup: RSI Manifold, Precision T3 Gen 1 6266 0.84, 2.85“ straight Exhaust (yes, not even 3"), dirty and small air filter, Precision 46mm wastegate, no BOV
Fuel: ID1000, Walbro 450, STOCK feed and and return,
STOCK fuel rail, STOCK FPR
ECU: MS3 Pro Evo, Full Sequential Ignition and Fuel, LS coil packs, Mac 4 port boost controller, AEM wideband.

This is the first time this car has ever seen a dyno, as it is 100% street tuned. We figured it was making pretty good power, so before we tore it apart for the forged stroker swap, we decided to see what kind of power we had been making on this stock bottom end for the last few years.
Wastegate pressure - ~13psi - 404whp/415tq
High Boost ~21psi - 522whp/527tq

We honestly could keep going. Plenty of fuel left for more power, I think we could get close to 600whp if we wanted a glory run.
We are going to work on a few small things before we remove the engine, maybe we will get it back on there for a glory run. We will see.

Watch till the end for a treat

https://youtu.be/4TxTXA_uxRM

[digger]

Those cars both have a 3.2mm thick HG as well

goes down to ~9.3:1

[2mAn]

I sent this to Jason Cammisa in the hopes that we can help his Touring make some more power lol

[AWDBOB]

m54b30 pistons have CH 28.3

206.1-135-28.3-44.8 = -2.0 mm so pistons sits 2.0 mm above deck. if you machine 2mm off with a stock gasket that is like 10.5:1

Those cars both have a 3.2mm thick HG as well

[digger]

m54b30 pistons have CH 28.3

206.1-135-28.3-44.8 = -2.0 mm so pistons sits 2.0 mm above deck. if you machine 2mm off with a stock gasket that is like 10.5:1

[AWDBOB]

thanks for posting

Of course! It is also worth noting that that my 3.1L started off as one of these 3L m20s. I never got to dyno the one that I had, so I'm happy to now have numbers to use for comparison once my engine is running.

Right on Bobbie - strong motors. Been a bit since we dyno'd an m20. Built a few 24vs and am going next week for a 13b rotary MS/ITB conversion.

I have a hard time with the 12:1 and stock - or 272 cam for that matter. Might want to see about that information. With a stock cam and 9.4:1 we are seeing 200psi cranking compression, I would expect detonation in the mid range with pump fuel, and 225+ cranking compression with 12:1 and stock cam (another member here was having detonation issues with 11:1 and 272 cam).

It appears car #2 could use some fuel trimming, for sure. Car #1 also seems like a little less fuel at 5700 would help the peak.

We saw just the opposite. Our MS car did about 6 more whp over the stock ECU car, but was with headers, extruded intake and stock cam added.

Send me the files to John@m20guru.com, maybe I can overlay them. The scaling is different between the runs, might just have to scale everything.

John- sent the files over.

Also, agreed regarding compression. I'm not sure the comp was ever fully calculated, so I suspect that number to be a "somewhere around there" type of figure. The cars didn't appear to detonate, so I assume the actual compression is lower than 12:1.

Dwights quote regarding compression from a BAT listing:

"The pistons were stock M54’s that had been shaved 2mm on the top and then they had 17 thousandths of ceramic coating. The compression ratio is about 12 to 1. Our metallurgist told us the pistons would withstand 12 to 1 compression ratio on pump gas. The cometic head gasket added 3.2mm to the block height which allowed for a high compression ratio."

[ForcedFirebird]

Right on Bobbie - strong motors. Been a bit since we dyno'd an m20. Built a few 24vs and am going next week for a 13b rotary MS/ITB conversion.

I have a hard time with the 12:1 and stock - or 272 cam for that matter. Might want to see about that information. With a stock cam and 9.4:1 we are seeing 200psi cranking compression, I would expect detonation in the mid range with pump fuel, and 225+ cranking compression with 12:1 and stock cam (another member here was having detonation issues with 11:1 and 272 cam).

It appears car #2 could use some fuel trimming, for sure. Car #1 also seems like a little less fuel at 5700 would help the peak.

We saw just the opposite. Our MS car did about 6 more whp over the stock ECU car, but was with headers, extruded intake and stock cam added.

Send me the files to John@m20guru.com, maybe I can overlay them. The scaling is different between the runs, might just have to scale everything.

[digger]

thanks for posting

[AWDBOB]

Figured I'd add to this thread- two 3L M20 cars built by Zionsville Autosport went on a local Dynojet today.

Both M20b30s were built using M54b30 internals, pistons shaved down 2mm and then had .0017 of ceramic coating added to the domes. Using a thicker MLS (not totally sure of exact size), compression is supposedly around 12:1. These aren't my claims, just the info I got from Dwight.

Car one was stock ecu, car two was Megasquirt. Stock ECU car had a 272 cam and a BBTB, but made less power than the car with Megasquirt.

Dwight and I had a bet on what the Megasquirt car would make, I guessed 185/210.

Anyway, onto the results. Also, to note, I tried to do an overlay in WinPep but couldn't get it to read right. I have the dyno files that I can send someone if they cared to do an overlay of cars 1&2.


Car #1:

Runs 1&2 are with stock chip in the stock ECU, runs 3&4 are with an SSSquid chip setup for this configuration of parts. You can see the curve smoothes out and AFRs also get much safer with the squid chip where the stock ECU was going lean.

Bolt ons:

-IE Billet 272 Cam
-BBTB

MILLS by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr





Car #2:

This car has a PNP Megasquirt setup with a Miller MAF somehow configured in there. I don't know the details of the t00n, but the bottom end is the exact same as car #1.

This car has a stock cam, and otherwise doesn't have any mods outside of the standalone, but made much stronger numbers. The tune is crazy rich up until 5K, and falls off like crazy after 6K.

LILE by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr



Edit: Adding a photo of car #1 because it's a beautiful, extremely low mile Japanese MT2 car.

Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr

[ForcedFirebird]

have you seen any power from retarding the cam seeing as allot of people resurfaced/shaved heads but with no adjustable gear.

Yes. Apparently the Schrick likes to be ~4° behind. In a racing series you may be docked points for using an adjustable gear, though....

[RobE30]

This thread is great. Thanks to everyone who's contributed. After reading through it, I'm amazed that my engine (284/272) on a stock b25 has held up d/t my severe lack of knowledge with tolerances/clearances. Round 2 is going to be much better.

How many miles should a Schrick 284/272 cam last? I think I'm around 40k, regular oil changes Castrol GTX 20/50

[dvallis]

Hey Varg, that's a good way to look at it. We've got a nice study of HP for M20 turbo stroker builds.

[varg]

Thanks for that, dvallis. It is very rare that someone posts a dyno printout that good. Usually it's one or two runs just to brag about the peak hp number when the comparison is the real value of a dyno in the first place. I had a little fun with your numbers since I don't get to see this kind of comparison with turbo cars too often. Of course it's not gospel, just for comparison, and forcing linearity is only way to easily display what kind of power increase your build is seeing per added psi of boost (the slope of the line).

[dvallis]

It's really well behaved, drivable and fun. I'm getting 5-10 psi boost at partial throttle, so maybe 200-250 HP. At WOT 19 psi the boost comes on like Mike Tyson punching you in the face. Make sure you're pointed in a straight line, hold on and try not to scream like a little girl. :-)

[gnmzl]

That's a curve I'd love to see in any of my cars. How does it drive, did you get a chance to test it?