Brake Upgrade for BMW Euroweaves / BBS RS 15" --- Is a BBK Worth it?

[DEV0 E30]

Brake Upgrade for BMW Euroweaves 15" / BBS RS 15" / Other 15" Basketweave Style


Having driven my EM1 (2000 Civic Si) on a simple "BBK" which was really just Wilwood Calipers - I grew to really really like the additional pistons, braking power, and feel.

Is it worth upgrading brakes to a BBK if you want to run euroweaves or other 15" basketweave style wheels?

The euroweaves are too classy to get rid of for now, so I'm struggling thinking if a BBK (front) is worth it, but stock E30 brakes are a bit meh IMO. [Click and drag to move]

I'm also considering upgrading so a future engine swap doesn't necessitate the upgrade then, rather do it now if I'm gonna do it, since suspension and other things are going to happen soon.

I'll be switching between 15" euroweaves and 16" wheels, rotating them every once in awhile.





Now saying that I've done some research, and I know there are some options, if I'm missing something worth checking out let me know.




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Massive Brakes

LINK: https://www.facebook.com/Massive-Bra...21006024674857

e30 front 280x21mm /11"x 0.8" BBK

Basic kit - Caliper adapter kit includes aluminum mounts, hydraulic fittings, BMW setscrews and fasteners and allow to fit a Wilwood Dynapro #120-9703 caliper on a VW Corrado G60 disc. The basic adapting kit is $250.00cad. Reintroducing the two-piece rotor - You can now fit 11"x0.8" two-piece Wilwood rotors #160-12892 if you can't access VW rotors or want to reduce weight and improve cooling ability (most G60 rotors have a closed backface, hence making impossible the use of ductings). And saving you the process of having to enlarge the Ø65mm center bore to Ø66mm. The full adapting kit (caliper brackets and hats) is a direct bolt-on and costs $600.00cad. Hats alone (with fasteners) are $450.00cad. Calipers and rotors available from any Wilwood supplier. This kit fits 15" BBS RS or other so-called "Euroweave" without spacers.

Massive Brakes: (Website isn't up, so I see he's been linking to facebook):

Total Cost in Freedom Dollars: ?????

Worth it?


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Motorsport Tools?

LINK: https://www.motorsport-tools.com/wil...3b3hpptj8dcnf2


NEW - BMW 3 Series E30 - Wilwood Dynalite 4 Pot Brake Kit - Race / Rally / Fast Road application.

Kit includes:
2 x Wilwood Dynalite 4 Pot Forged Calipers
2 x 280mm x 22mm Vented disks
2 x Fitting kit including, mounting brackets, nuts, bolts, fittings etc.

Application: 3 series (E30) (Excluding M3)
Caliper Type: Dyn 2
Lug/Radial: L
Disc Size (Diam x Width): 280 x 22
Possible Wheelsize (Inches): 15
Spare Disc Part No.: 500-026A

Brake discs are plain vented, X-Drilled discs available as an extra option, please enquire.


Total Cost in Freedom Dollars: $750 ??? + Shipping ?

Worth it?


I think this setup is using this kit or something very similar (wilwood dynalite 280mm 4 pots):






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Ireland Engineering

LINK: https://www.iemotorsport.com/product...s-e30-325-318/

For the 318/325. This 295mm front big brake kit is intended for cars with 15″ or larger wheels. Rotors are slotted 2-piece with aluminum center (hat) measuring 295mm x 20mm. These are very effective and reduce unsprung weight. This kit uses a Wilwood forged aluminum 6-piston Dynapro caliper – this caliper is 1/2″ narrower on the outboard side than most calipers so it’s less likely to cause wheel fit problems (you need only 1.75″ from the rotor to the back side of the wheel spokes to clear this caliper). The inside diameter of the wheel needs to be at least 13.375″ to clear the rotor. Kit includes 6-piston Wilwood Dynapro calipers, two piece slotted rotors, brake pads, mounting brackets, associated hardware, stainless steel braided hoses (note that others do not include this in their kits).

Note: Picture shows optional cross drilled rotor.

Currently, Wilwood is experiencing production delays due to raw materials availability. There is a shipping/processing delay for this kit of 8-10 weeks.


Total Cost: $1,290.00 + Shipping ???

Worth it?


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RX7 Caliper + _____ Rotors?


Requires 8mm/10mm spacers.

Total Cost: ???

Worth it?




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[Panici]

Following this thread.
Also would like to keep 15" Euroweaves, and eventually will need better brakes.

FWIW I switched to an E83 X3 Brake Booster w/Chase Bays proportioning valve, and it made the original brakes feel much better. I don't have ABS just as a point of reference.
Haven't had it at the track since the change though.

[DEV0 E30]

Following this thread.
Also would like to keep 15" Euroweaves, and eventually will need better brakes.

FWIW I switched to an E83 X3 Brake Booster w/Chase Bays proportioning valve, and it made the original brakes feel much better. I don't have ABS just as a point of reference.
Haven't had it at the track since the change though.

Good to know, I have ABS and want to retain it but a new Master + Booster are likely in my future - would love to have the plan sorted before an engine swap.

I just would love to know if a mediocre BBK would be worth the cost from those who have any of the above options.

While I'm not against running spacers, and I may just for aesthetics, I'd love to know that the euroweaves would fit without them. With they above options that should be true, but again would just love some confirmation.

[DEV0 E30]

No opinions or input?

[jbontke]

Sadly, you may be better off posting to the R3VLimited FB group.

[DEV0 E30]

I'll feed the beast. Posted.

[e30davie]

280 or even 295 is pretty big for the size of the car. an R32 GTR is only 325 x 30. bigger yes. but a GTR is significantly heavier and more powerful standard.

i feel like either options would be more than sufficient. The spec E30 guys all use OEM size afterall.

what about the rear brakes?

[wazzu70]

Just a better pad compound on the stock E30 calipers improves braking a lot.

The Massive kit with the Wilwoods would make the feeling a lot better since its not a sliding style caliper. Lees stuff is solid so you know its going to be a good kit!

I don’t have the kit so I cant comment on how it feels. All the PRO3 cars run stock calipers with good ducting. If you drive the car hard, the ducting is key to cool the brakes down between applications.

[Northern]

I think there's a risk of messing with the system and making things worse by screwing up the F/R bias, or simply adding too much piston for the stock MC.


Change the Piston Area a lot -> Have to change the MC -> What fits your booster (E30, E30ix, 944, Clio, E90, X3, etc?) What F/R size MC pistons, and how does that change your brake bias/pedal feel/pedal effort/travel?


It would be easy to do up a spreadsheet and I've meant to do this forever, but haven't got around to it.


Also it's hard to compare different kits because the calipers themselves are hard to compare and wilwood doesn't seem to have a strict "x caliper is better than y" list. The basic Hirearchy for quality/caliper stiffness is something like:

1. Forged Superlites - Normal or Narrow, 6 or 4 piston, Radial mount. These have a ton of structure on the ends for stiffness/support.
2. DynaPro/DynaLite - Normal or Narrow, Forged or Billet, 4 piston. Radial or Lug mount. Much less structure to the ends, but cheaper.

Lots of other options, but they get cost prohibitive quickly. Probably why all the kits use the above.

Wilwood makes a bunch of OTS hats too. All the dimensions are listed, so it would just be a matter of ordering a rotor and getting measurements from a mockup. Hell, they may even be pre-drilled to some extent.

[wazzu70]

The kit with the Wilwoods is not radically different and is meant to go with the stock rears. The main upgrade is the calipers are consistent and solid without the sliders (also pads tend to be cheaper).

Of course if you reach out to Lee he will give you an honest opinion on if this works with stock rears, is a good upgrade, etc. He's always been honest/upfront with me even if hes telling me the product I am asking about would not do what I am hoping.

I know we used to source the Ate fronts because they slid on a machined pin and you could upgrade the caliper bushings to bronze for more consistent feel. This was for a league where you had to use stock brakes. Can’t remember what years got the better sliders. Not sure if thus is a “cheap” upgrade these days.

https://www.condorspeedshop.com/products/brake-caliper-guide-bushing-set-street?variant=7955290521646&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplpshopify_US_702569709614_7955290521646&sc_intid=shopify_US_702569709614_7955290521646&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxb2XBhDBARIsAOjDZ36drgZcAps4ItkwkC0J9FenStoqsFHUOqdyFXRd20LxJv-oXzzH9fIaAk0tEALw_wcB

I see Ate makes caliper replacements for the Girling brackets so make sure you get the sliding pin version.

[Staszek]

Question for you, how far out do the E30 calipers extend from the rotor? Do you mind measuring that? I have the IE 16" kit, I like the brakes a lot, but they are a bitch to fit behind anything. I had to go 17's for it to really work. I want to go back to 16's but not with spacers, I may downgrade my kit, we will see.

I know how far the IE kit comes out, but I cant find how far the stock calipers extend from the rotor.

[DEV0 E30]

Question for you, how far out do the E30 calipers extend from the rotor? Do you mind measuring that? I have the IE 16" kit, I like the brakes a lot, but they are a bitch to fit behind anything. I had to go 17's for it to really work. I want to go back to 16's but not with spacers, I may downgrade my kit, we will see.

I know how far the IE kit comes out, but I cant find how far the stock calipers extend from the rotor.

If I remember to, I'll try to measure this for you when I start messing with wheels/suspension.

I'm still not sure the route I want to go with for brakes, but I do want an upgrade. We'll see what I can do with the wheels I've got now.

Again I'd love to be able to not make my euroweaves become useless to me, but we'll see what happens.

[bmwman91]

FYI, also look at getting a cleaned & rebuilt ABS unit (Jordan sells them and they are top-notch!). Installing an ABS unit that did not have 30 years of gooey shit and clogged filters made more difference to my braking than anything else I have ever done. Feel and responsiveness both improved greatly, and on top of that the ABS actually works as it is supposed to (and it is pretty damn good it turns out...I doubt that there is a single E30 out there with an original ABS unit that actually works as intended).

My how to / review:

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/e30-technical-forums/suspension-unsprung/brakes-subframe-arms/9966053-how-to-replace-bleed-abs-hydraulic-unit

[DEV0 E30]

Jordan's work speaks volumes, and a refurbished ABS pump is already on the list for sure.

I may have one of the lowest mileage ABS pumps in this car (80k-ish), but time probably still hasn't been kind to it. Great write up by the way.

I'm unsure what brakes will realistically fit behind the euroweaves and other, so I'll likely pause on any brake caliper/disc changes for now.

[bmwman91]

Age is really what the main factor is for a gunked up ABS unit. If the brake fluid was completely flushed out once a year, then it might be OK, but otherwise it is probably filled with sludge. My car has been a CA car all its life, and while the brake fluid was not flushed very regularly, it definitely had a nasty ABS unit in it lol.

I am all ears if/when you make a move on bigger brakes...I also have 15" Euroweaves and get the bug for more stopping power from time to time!