M5x and S5x over M20.. Why?

[DBShiznit]

I've seen people run 8psi on factory bolts and gaskets (as in not change them). It's really the factory headbolts that limit boost. Once you ahve ARP 12 or 15 is easily and safely done.

Ahh gotcha. Thanks for the info!


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[nando]

The funny thing is though, a basic M50 swap is hardly faster at all in reality than a decently running M20. I wonder how many weak M50s were swapped in because their M20 throttle or TPS simply wasn't adjusted to open the throttle fully or trigger WOT.

189bhp is easily within the realm of a pretty mild M20 these days. Also, no budget turbo is ever going to be 'reliable' - and M20s definitely can hold 500whp reliably, but it won't be cheap (and neither will a 500whp M50).

[jeenyus]

M5X engines do have hydraulic lifters, and that's pretty great. I plan on puttin in a different power plant with time, but that's because of preference. I would prefer the older body type of the e30 with a more modern engine.

How come nobody is talking about the N5X engines? those are the future probably.
America - LS
Japan - 2JZ
Euro - N5X

That's just my opinion though.

[DBShiznit]

It’s been talked about and it’s fitment issues as well all the electronic components you’d have to add just to have a N54 run


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[jeenyus]

It’s been talked about and it’s fitment issues as well all the electronic components you’d have to add just to have a N54 run


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That just seems like the price to pay for those types of swaps though. Don't LS & 2JZ all need custom engine management? I bet there are solutions for that stuff these days.

[DBShiznit]

That just seems like the price to pay for those types of swaps though. Don't LS & 2JZ all need custom engine management? I bet there are solutions for that stuff these days.

To be honest I’m not sure but I’ve looked into it for my e36 and that’s the reason people walk away. However I do follow someone on Instagram with a N54 swapped e36


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[jeenyus]

The engine is beastly. Sounds better than all the other inline-6 engines I've heard too. I really hope the N turns into the new swap.

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[nando]

It’s been talked about and it’s fitment issues as well all the electronic components you’d have to add just to have a N54 run


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What extra stuff? It's almost the same as an S54 swap. The only extra addition for the N54 is the HPFP and probably the returnless fuel system (you're not going to want to run 5,000psi through E30 fuel lines).

N52 has already been done a couple times - it makes more power (stock for stock) than an S52 and weighs less than an M42..

[DBShiznit]

It’s been discussed throughout forums but maybe it was just people trying to steer others away because they couldn’t handle it themselves 🤷🏽waffles♂️


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[Kershaw]

Why bother even turbo'ing it? The M20 is a very underrated engine and has proven time and time again to hold it's own. 230whp-245whp is now easily achievable while still having good road manners (and using 91octane).

However, I get that kids just want to do a "motor swap" because it's almost a right-of-passage for any gear head. To each their own, we are all friends here.

How much do you have to pay for that though? Because an m52b28 can be had for a $400, you can use stock chipped engine management, it bolts to the g260, m50 intake manifold, headers, and some half assed hybrid exhaust. Sure, you're not doing 230whp, but maybe you're doing 180whp with VANOS and that's what makes the difference. The car feels so much faster because it has 30 more hp at 2000rpm than an m20 and you spent maybe $2k?

230-245whp is definitely doable on an m20. I'd love to have that. But you're spending $6k on the motor, $1k on the exhaust, $1k on engine management, and $1k on tuning. Minimum. Now you have a $10k motor in a $4k e30. As the owner of 2 ixs, engine swaps aren't really that feasible for me, so if you think my numbers are unreasonably high, send me a PM, I have a motor to build.

[varg]

M50 swaps are puzzling. You gain weight and very little power, I never understood the appeal. M50 turbo, sure I can get that a little, but NA M50? Come on.

Hell even the M42's. How come those are so bad to turbo? Everyone always jumps on the 6cyl swap but a M42 turbo that makes good power will out handle a 6Cyl

The M42 is pretty crap. I had one, turbocharged it, never really liked it. It always leaked, even after a complete reseal. It made all kinds of timing chain noise, even with new wear parts. The M42 has multiple serious flaws, and it's underwhelming even by 16V 4 cylinder standards. Who wants a 4 cylinder that falls off after 6,000rpm? Not me. It's hopeless NA too, for the amount of money people spend on doing NA M42 builds that make 150hp, you could swap in a Honda 4 that makes more power bone stock and won't kill itself spontaneously when the timing idler sprocket snaps off or eat its thrust bearing and crank walk.

How come nobody is talking about the N5X engines? those are the future probably.
America - LS
Japan - 2JZ
Euro - N5X

That's just my opinion though.

2JZs are overrated. Overweight lumps of cast iron that are only good for wowing people with dyno numbers or drag racing.

[jeenyus]

An engine swap in the IX is still very feasible imo. I'd rather do that than build the m20.

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[Kershaw]

I'd easily pay $500 for an engine swap oil pan. When you do your swap, make me an extra pan or two.

[e30davie]

Im only new to bmws (couple of years wiht my e30) really but i am very surprised at how good the m20 is. The design is like 40yrs old? I rebuilt my m20b23 and it is as basic as an engine can get. 2 valves, no variable valves, rocker arms tappets. anyone can do extensive work on them. Yet in factory form it makes ample power (in my opinion) for the e30 chassis and with a good noise. An m20b25 must be a hoot to drive with the added horsepower.

Admitedly the m20 is not winning any awards for smooth operation compared to a modern engine, the tick tick tick of the valves gets a little annoying, you can adjust them all you like, and they will tick (and they should tick a bit). everyone seems to struggle with vacuum leaks but you either fix them properly or you don't. once you have fixed them, problem solved.

My m20b23 has consistently given 9L/100km fuel economy which is pretty damn good.. I've got mine on megasquirt so which made a huge improvement on drive ability, especially throttle response. I see the timing belt on an m20 used as a negative. As long as you change them when you are supposed to they give great service, and you can change one before lunch. m20 is so easy to work on. Timing belt makes for a quiet operation in that department, no rattly chains to deal with.

I think alot of people see the M50 swaps as a potential easy option to more power and a more modern engine. and to a certain degree they are probably correct, but with a bit of effort the mighty m20 can hold its own I reckon.

[coldweatherblue]

I've daily driven M20 E30s for 15 of 18 years driving.

Sometimes getting onto an uphill on-ramp I wish I had a little more power, but that's about it.

The E30 to me is about balanced handling and carrying momentum through corners, and to end the M20 is well matched to the car. Good low end torque and pulls hard to redline. I've experienced no engine problems in ~200k miles driving an E30 that were not either basic maintenance or driver induced.

S52 (and other) E30s are definitely awesome, but for running around town, daily driving here in East TN, where most of the roads are curvy, hilly, full of hairpin corners, round-a-bouts, etc, the M20 does just fine.

If I want to hit 60 in a few seconds I'll just ride my bike.