So Virginia bans O-Care

[Tree18is]

Im a very simple minded person on this shit, but just from a short read I think its awesome that somehow, they found a way to use the constitution in a way no one can knock! ITS WHAT IT WAS MADE FOR! its the government using the constitution for itself. not citizens
any ways I cant explain. Later clowns!

[HarryPotter]

I don't personally disagree with you. However, this is symbolic because the federal government supersedes the state government. This is basically why the Civil War was fought.

I think this is bullshit because it prohibits ANY attempt at health care reform. If it would have prohibited just the most recent bill that Congress has been toying with, then it would have been fine. But to prohibit any reform is just counter productive. The health care system in this country is broken. It needs to be fixed and Virginia is not helping by passing this.

Health care reform in this country needs three things. Any bill would need to prohibit insurance companies from turning down people for pre-existing conditions. It would also need to mandate purchase of insurance. It would also need to have some aspect of price control whether this be a public option or fixed prices. A bill like this would still offer plenty of opportunity for competition.

Mandate purchase of insurance? Why the on earth would you want to do that?

[mar1t1me]

Do you realize this country is on the verge of bankruptcy?

Yeah, maybe allowing all those businesses to move their manufacturing to Communist slave states wasn't so smart. They used to have factories in the US that paid American workers that created tax revenue to pay for the infrastructure. At least now we can live better at Walmart while simultaneously enriching those who live under the Chinese Communist Party.

Then there are those major league teams on corporate welfare- I read a case study about Cincinnati, OH and how two new stadiums got shoved down the voters throats, and now neither the Reds nor Bengals pay rent anymore due to the sweetheart deal and how the city is laying off cops and cutting vital services. The guys who brokered that deal have moved on to greened pastures.

What about fatcat politicians who are paid six figures, but who still have their Gold Plated Health policies paid by taxpayers who have no coverage?

It's pretty screwed and the sad fact is neither party can fix it. Were every liberal Democrat simply to vaporize overnight, the GOP still couldn't tie its own shoelaces. Pathetic.

Lets not even talk about:

• The War on Drugs (19 billion per year)
• The War on Terror (trillions that we know of)
• Unbelievable corruption on both sides of the aisle

This "thing" that the country has become did not begin with the election of Obama. The GOP continually acts as if everything was beer and Skittles until he showed up. Puhleeeeze.......

.....but of course, if you ask any stupid hillbilly redneck, they'll tell you that's precisely what happened....

[LBJefferies]

Mandate purchase of insurance? Why the on earth would you want to do that?

If this country wants health care reform and health care for everyone, you need a mandate otherwise it won't work.

[kronus]

Yeah, maybe allowing all those businesses to move their manufacturing to Communist slave states wasn't so smart. They used to have factories in the US that paid American workers that created tax revenue to pay for the infrastructure. At least now we can live better at Walmart while simultaneously enriching those who live under the Chinese Communist Party.

Then there are those major league teams on corporate welfare- I read a case study about Cincinnati, OH and how two new stadiums got shoved down the voters throats, and now neither the Reds nor Bengals pay rent anymore due to the sweetheart deal and how the city is laying off cops and cutting vital services. The guys who brokered that deal have moved on to greened pastures.

What about fatcat politicians who are paid six figures, but who still have their Gold Plated Health policies paid by taxpayers who have no coverage?

It's pretty screwed and the sad fact is neither party can fix it. Were every liberal Democrat simply to vaporize overnight, the GOP still couldn't tie its own shoelaces. Pathetic.

Lets not even talk about:

• The War on Drugs (19 billion per year)
• The War on Terror (trillions that we know of)
• Unbelievable corruption on both sides of the aisle

This "thing" that the country has become did not begin with the election of Obama. The GOP continually acts as if everything was beer and Skittles until he showed up. Puhleeeeze.......

.....but of course, if you ask any stupid hillbilly redneck, they'll tell you that's precisely what happened....

fukken +1, but China isn't really a communist state anymore.

[Kershaw]

america really sucks in regards to healthcare compared to european first world countries. i really believe its due to our lack of national healthcare.

its time for us to step up.

smokers, obese people, people with high cholesterol, etc, need to pay heavier premiums though. if they want to be unhealthy, fine by me, but they have to pay for it.

[LBJefferies]

smokers, obese people, people with high cholesterol, etc,

This is really the reason why our health care system sucks so bad. The people of this country are just fat lazy fucks. Europeans are much healthier.

[Kershaw]

yep.

their entire quality of life is a good bit higher than ours.

except we can own guns. big fucking guns. :up: thats a big bonus for us.

[ck_taft325is]

america really sucks in regards to healthcare compared to european first world countries. i really believe its due to our lack of national healthcare.

its time for us to step up.

smokers, obese people, people with high cholesterol, etc, need to pay heavier premiums though. if they want to be unhealthy, fine by me, but they have to pay for it.

So you want them to mandate Health Care Insurance of some sort? MUST have. Illegal not to have? Then, you want them to tell the population what they have to live like or else suffer penalties?

Bet the world looks so small from way up there on your high healthy horse. Since when did personal responsibility become the job of the Government, people? When? I'm confused when this occured. Seat belts are smart. But it's not the Government's job to make me wear one for "my own good".

[ck_taft325is]

This is really the reason why our health care system sucks so bad. The people of this country are just fat lazy fucks. Europeans are much healthier.

Do everyone a favor and move to Europe then ;)

[Hallen]

In actuality I had been laid off from my old job at BMW because of the slumping econ.

This was only 2 years after from returning from my second tour overseas with the USAF...I was pressing on the crank bearings on a engine that I was rebuilding to sell, so I could pay rent.

Needless to say the arbor plate slipped out from the crank and my finger was crushed....

So now im about 3 weeks out of work, no medical and not alot of cash. I went to the hospital anyway because I was bleeding like a stuck pig. They tell me I MUST have Xrays and some stitches. I refuse the Xrays after learining that the cost for 3 exposures without insurance would be around $4000. The doc stitches me up and I leave. I'm such a dumbass for assuming the low cost of the procedure

3 weeks later I get the $3700 bill for emergencgy room treatment and 4 (FOUR) stitches.


Tell me how exactly that this shit is ok? It isnt! I worked hard my whole life, never been out of work, hut myself once and bingo im fucked. There are pleanty of HARD WORKING people that would benefit from this. And to be honest im willing to spend more money out of every current paycheck to grant this for people.


I pay for my current insurance plus copays and its not cheap, to be honest I dont think its being managed well.

Healthcare is one of the only industries where pricefixing and elevated costs of supplies (read gouging for 4 stitches) is legal.

That really does suck and I'm sorry that you got hammered that way.

You are mixing apples and oranges here though. In some ways they are inextricable, but you have to be careful how you interpret things.

The bill that the Dems are working on now have nothing in them about controlling health CARE costs. They are trying to force 100% coverage on people with taxes and penalties. But, because of the way it is done, we'll have greatly varying costs by state and it is doubtful that it will actually lower health INSURANCE costs.

The reason you get charged $3700 for 4 stitches is because of our current, virtual single payer system. Medicare is already the dominant force out there and is virtually a single payer system as it sits now. They dictate what they will pay for anything. Most of the time, their payments aren't enough to cover what it costs the care providers. So, the care providers must artificially raise their prices on everything in order to insure that the fractional payment they get from medicare will be enough to cover costs. That means that poor schmucks like you get to pay the full, over inflated price, thanks to medicare. Insurance companies use medicare pricing to target what they pay as well. They don't get it, but that's what they use and that's why you hear all this stuff about evil insurance companies negotiating unsustainable pay-back rates with care providers. It's all caused by our government systems. I would guess that 40% of your bill was due to these over inflated prices caused by medicare.

The other reason you had to pay so much is malpractice insurance. A surgeon will pay over $250,000 in premiums for his practice. That hospital pays hundreds of millions every year in premiums. Probably a quarter of your bill went to pay that premium.

The other reason you had to pay so much is that government regulation is often capricious and inefficient. It's supposedly there to keep us safe, which is laudable, but because of the way its done, it ends up costing care providers way more than it should. Probably a quarter of your bill was there to cover these costs.

Yep, that's right. I bet your bill could have been $370 if it weren't for our government trying to help us.

If the Dems get their way eventually, and we do end up with a single payer system, sure, they can dictate pricing for all medical procedures and those prices will be lower than now. But without massive changes to get rid of some of these other stupid costs, either quality of care MUST go down, or availability of care must go down. There's no other way around it. And we haven't even started talking about the horrible inefficiencies of government run programs.

If you do what the Repubs want, tort reform, open the state lines, reduction in regulation, you'd probably see your bill go down by 50% or more, right off the bat. Then if we could outsource medicare to a private system that was run efficiently, we could get rid of these stupid price games too.

So, it's mostly a self-induced problem, and the current bill in front of congress doesn't do anything to address the cost problem of health care. You'll still be paying stupid prices. It's just that it will come out of your check every month in the form of taxes.

[Wiglaf]

If you do what the Repubs want, tort reform, open the state lines, reduction in regulation, you'd probably see your bill go down by 50% or more, right off the bat. Then if we could outsource medicare to a private system that was run efficiently, we could get rid of these stupid price games too.

So, it's mostly a self-induced problem, and the current bill in front of congress doesn't do anything to address the cost problem of health care. You'll still be paying stupid prices. It's just that it will come out of your check every month in the form of taxes.

If they had come out with that in instead of just playing "let's derail everything and see how far we can divide our country" then it very well could have been a reality by now. Given how the last decade went, I doubt they would give it a shot even if obama's does go down in flames.

[ck_taft325is]

That really does suck and I'm sorry that you got hammered that way.

You are mixing apples and oranges here though. In some ways they are inextricable, but you have to be careful how you interpret things.

The bill that the Dems are working on now have nothing in them about controlling health CARE costs. They are trying to force 100% coverage on people with taxes and penalties. But, because of the way it is done, we'll have greatly varying costs by state and it is doubtful that it will actually lower health INSURANCE costs.

The reason you get charged $3700 for 4 stitches is because of our current, virtual single payer system. Medicare is already the dominant force out there and is virtually a single payer system as it sits now. They dictate what they will pay for anything. Most of the time, their payments aren't enough to cover what it costs the care providers. So, the care providers must artificially raise their prices on everything in order to insure that the fractional payment they get from medicare will be enough to cover costs. That means that poor schmucks like you get to pay the full, over inflated price, thanks to medicare. Insurance companies use medicare pricing to target what they pay as well. They don't get it, but that's what they use and that's why you hear all this stuff about evil insurance companies negotiating unsustainable pay-back rates with care providers. It's all caused by our government systems. I would guess that 40% of your bill was due to these over inflated prices caused by medicare.

The other reason you had to pay so much is malpractice insurance. A surgeon will pay over $250,000 in premiums for his practice. That hospital pays hundreds of millions every year in premiums. Probably a quarter of your bill went to pay that premium.

The other reason you had to pay so much is that government regulation is often capricious and inefficient. It's supposedly there to keep us safe, which is laudable, but because of the way its done, it ends up costing care providers way more than it should. Probably a quarter of your bill was there to cover these costs.

Yep, that's right. I bet your bill could have been $370 if it weren't for our government trying to help us.

If the Dems get their way eventually, and we do end up with a single payer system, sure, they can dictate pricing for all medical procedures and those prices will be lower than now. But without massive changes to get rid of some of these other stupid costs, either quality of care MUST go down, or availability of care must go down. There's no other way around it. And we haven't even started talking about the horrible inefficiencies of government run programs.

If you do what the Repubs want, tort reform, open the state lines, reduction in regulation, you'd probably see your bill go down by 50% or more, right off the bat. Then if we could outsource medicare to a private system that was run efficiently, we could get rid of these stupid price games too.

So, it's mostly a self-induced problem, and the current bill in front of congress doesn't do anything to address the cost problem of health care. You'll still be paying stupid prices. It's just that it will come out of your check every month in the form of taxes.

Exactly!

[dvs909]

I want national health care, the current system is fucked and Ive been in positions before that I needed it and didnt have it.

I dont really care what the cost is, we need it...cut spending in transportation of tax brreaks for big business...i dont care

shut the fuck up.

you know how much i pay for health insurance? $ 80 a month.

if its so important to you, why dont YOU fucking buy it.

[Dozyproductions]

So this forum needs you Hallen.