Trump Thread 2.0

[phillipj]

that's sort of what's frustrating to me about politics being defined as "left" or "right".

it's more like 3-dimensional space where the x, y, and z axes are what you give a shit about.

Hm. Maybe just Values? I think if we get the divisive marketing/messaging/spin out of it, and the branding of 'sides', most of us can more fluidly talk about (& understand) values.

[Javier h]

Oh man...the bickering continues.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pelosi-house-wont-authorize-state-of-the-union/ar-BBSDZrt?

I wasnt aware the speaker could chuck the President like this.

I guess he'll have to do it in one of his hotels?

[z31maniac]

This is really beyond pathetic. Unfortunately, both sides still think it's "not their guys" doing this and ugh.

[parkerbink]

The President is not allowed in the house without an invite.

I can't decide if Pelosi is being childish or a genius. She has taken away Trumps favorite thing, being the center of attention. But he can just do it from elsewhere.

Bottom line both sides suck.

[naplesE30]

She has managed to make herself, and the dems by default, to look as childish as Trump, and that is pretty hard to do. Trump will still give his SOTU, only now he will be able to show and say the Dems are being irrational. She also has given Trump more attention by making the rather routine process of giving the SOTU a news network leading topic now. They just keep playing into his ego. How have they not figured this out yet?

Which begs the question, if the dems boycott the SOTU address, which is likely, how can they give a response afterwards?

[phillipj]

Completely disagree with the last 3 comments. Shutting down the State of the Union is not bickering - in this case it is checks and balances. Not to mention 100% logical.

The Government is shut down. Why have televised hot-air pageantry from the Capitol for the President's message, or the response afterward? Doesn't make sense. Why? just because of tradition?


Re-open the government -> then have your Bully-Pulpit.
You close down the government, just have a news conference. Or say whatever you want on Twitter.

[naplesE30]

Devils advocate here: wouldn’t the fact govt is shut down necessitate more than usual, a need for a State of the Union address to say what the heck is going on?

Secondly, dems only control 1 of the 3 bodies that are needed to re-open govt. So aren’t they responsible for closing govt? Republicans certainly were when in that situation a few years ago?


In any case I wouldn’t define denying the floor of the house for a constitutional requirement that the president shall give a SOTU from time to time a check on power. It will not be seen as heroic or anything other than petty by many. Just petty people who put their own egos before their constituents.

[phillipj]

Devils advocate here: wouldn’t the fact govt is shut down necessitate more than usual, a need for a State of the Union address to say what the heck is going on?

Secondly, dems only control 1 of the 3 bodies that are needed to re-open govt. So aren’t they responsible for closing govt? Republicans certainly were when in that situation a few years ago?


In any case I wouldn’t define denying the floor of the house for a constitutional requirement that the president shall give a SOTU from time to time a check on power. It will not be seen as heroic or anything other than petty by many. Just petty people who put their own egos before their constituents.

I think we can all agree, there is too much talk and not enough action. Right?

So, this President needs another televised address to message what is really going on? He had a special address on television a week or so ago that all the networks covered. That changed nothing. The previous president was denied similar airtime for the same thing when he was president.

---

Second, the government Shut down in the first place because of the President. The GOP Controlled Senate, and the GOP minority in the House had a deal with all of the Democrats to keep the Government running along with $1.8Billion toward the 'Wall' and Border security. The President even agreed to it... Until he backed out on everyone else. It's on him.

Also, the State of the Union address is not a constitutional requirement.

Agree to disagree, or, whatever, but the State of this Union is weak.

[z31maniac]

It's on the Republicans, 100%.

The previous two years they controlled all 3 branches and didn't find funding the wall to be a priority.

[mrsleeve]

^
Control maybe, but never had the 60 votes in the Senate....... D. Pound sign nevertrump

Also, the State of the Union address is not a constitutional requirement.

.

Ummmm. Article II. Section 3. Clause 1

As to fault, yup potus started it, Nancy has escalated flip flopped, and grandstanded it into this shit show that it is. Pound sign nevertrump

[R3Z3N]

Agreed: D-s and their #NEVERTRUMP stance, but I do understand as I was very much against most of Obama, Clinton, and the great puppet Bush, as all reduced our rights which the government can only do.

Now, I do want increased border security so that it is extremely dangerous to enter unless using controlled entry points, however the budget won't cover the whole wall, as it is not just the Mex/CA border.

The world keeps spinning despite who is in control. Argentinians lost control, they are making due, not well at all mind you, but they have no way to stand up anymore, as they gave up.

[phillipj]

Ummmm. Article II. Section 3. Clause 1

^^ Right on; thanks. I always thought it was purely tradition. Caused me to look into the pretty interesting history this morning. From wikipedia:

He shall from time to time give to Congress information of the State of the Union and recommend to their Consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient. — Article II, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution

Though the language of the clause is not specific, since the 1930s, the President has made this report annually in late January or early February. Between 1934 and 2013 the date has been as early as January 3, and as late as February 12.

While not required to deliver a speech, every president since Woodrow Wilson, with the notable exception of Herbert Hoover, has made at least one State of the Union report as a speech delivered before a joint session of Congress. Before that time, most presidents delivered the State of the Union as a written report.

[phillipj]

I very much like that the Speaker is playing hardball, although really, at the end of the day TSOTU speech isn't that big of a deal. What's most worrisome to me is how Neoliberal Politicians like Pelosi and Schumer will strike deals with Autocrats like Trump. Scary.

Ha. So in some of your guys' minds here, they finally grew a spine only because they are #nevertrump (?) Maybe it's more that $5.8 Billion dollars for a Wall is a waste of money we don't have for a largely manufactured 'crisis' we don't have. I think in terms of dollars and cents vs. values and need and the whole idea is just completely ridiculous.

[mbonder]

I just find it humorous that every explanation for what the Democrats are doing comes down to #nevertrump. It's also curious that the Democrats are now the party of fiscal restraint in this argument and the Republicans are the party for increased government spending.

This is just one instance in history of one party slowing or stopping government action altogether. Let's not be too quick to forget when the shoe was on the other foot and the Garland nomination wouldn't be brought to a vote in the Senate for an entire year because #neverobama. Government shutdowns have happened in the past and will happen in the future, mainly because both sides take a stance and refuse to move. Eventually one side will cave, at this point it looks like Trump and the Republicans have more of a reason to compromise given Trump's falling approval ratings and the reality that he seems to be taking much of the blame for the shutdown.

[Javier h]

Huh?

How would you actually know without the final report being released?

Because you heard it on Fox?

All we know is that the investigation continues.

I don't subscribe much to conspiracy theorist either but one thing that has always lingered for me was that Bannon said Trump will likely be impeached.

Lets just see what happens.

If the left in this country succeeds in impeaching Trump the shit will hit the fan.
The Russian investigation has now been shown to be a set up, and Comey, amongst his ‘I do no remembers’’ admited so.
The left, the progressives, are going to bury themselves in the dustbin of history, and it cannot happen fast enough.