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    Originally posted by mach schnell View Post

    I like how you pretend that you will ever change your mind on this issue.
    I like how you pretend you have any idea where I actually stand on this issue or what guns are currently in my own home.
    Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
    Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

    www.gutenparts.com
    One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

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      Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
      ^However, at this time, we can, without question, despite how a judge or jury may rule in this frail wind of a political climate. A reason many are willing to carry without a license, because it is a right that shall not be taxed, or infringed, and has no basis on need or perception of need.

      Again, 2A was deemed to be a natural right, before it was written IE "a God given right". I would argue that it is completely reasonable to have no restrictions, because as again, we need the ability to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, from the gangs, to the abusive ex boyfriend, to the random mugging on the street.

      This right is something that one can not predict, therefore if one desires to even attempt to reduce the likelyhood of becoming a victim, to give themselves teeth when they have none as the worst of them will.
      Bro, stop using your invisible, sky daddy to justify stuff you can't justify yourself.

      My brother is an LEO and tried the whole, "The government shouldn't have more powerful weapons than we do."

      So, we are allowed tanks, drones, anti-aircraft battery's, war ships, cruise missles, etc? The government has had more powerful weapons for a century and that WILL NEVER CHANGE. Please don't bring up the Middle East as proof that a determined group of neighborhood accountants could stand up to the US Military. We have a small number of troops, and they have a higher threshold of engagement than LEOs in the US do. Why do you ask? To keep the perpetual war machine going.
      Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
      Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

      www.gutenparts.com
      One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

      Comment


        Originally posted by bmwman91 View Post
        Gun homicide is clearly "A" problem, but I fail to see a viable case to be made that it is anywhere near "THE" problem from which any sort of significant portion of society's ills today stem.
        Thank you for being the voice of reason.

        And really, if we want to talk about our rights being trampled on mercilessly, isn't xkeyscore and the 5 eyes agreement far more relevant?
        AWD > RWD

        Comment


          Z31, only a fool thinks that what happened elsewhere can't happen in America.

          Comment


            Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
            Z31, only a fool thinks that what happened elsewhere can't happen in America.
            If the scope of your ability to debate a topic as complex as 2a is "it's a right" fortified by references to a time when documents were written with fuckin feathers, it's probably safe to say we've heard you and you're not sharing any new unique thoughts.

            Comment


              So a document written with feathers is no longer valid? Is that your point?

              As to "God Given right", not all founding fathers believed in God. However the point was still the same, this is a right that precedes any laws. Too many don't understand the difference between a right, and a privilege. A foolish mind thinks safety/security is worth losing freedom over. A government can only remove rights/privileges, not grant them.

              BTW, what you quoted has nothing to do with feathers.

              Don't forget that genocide, tyranny and loss of freedom starts with disarmament. Our country can become war-torn once again.

              Comment


                Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                So a document written with feathers is no longer valid? Is that your point?

                As to "God Given right", not all founding fathers believed in God. However the point was still the same, this is a right that precedes any laws. Too many don't understand the difference between a right, and a privilege. A foolish mind thinks safety/security is worth losing freedom over. A government can only remove rights/privileges, not grant them.

                BTW, what you quoted has nothing to do with feathers.

                Don't forget that genocide, tyranny and loss of freedom starts with disarmament. Our country can become war-torn once again.
                Jesus and the Slippery-Slope Fallacy.

                Top notch position.
                Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                www.gutenparts.com
                One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
                  Jesus and the Slippery-Slope Fallacy. Top notch position.
                  History, it's a bitch for the left.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

                    I like how you pretend you have any idea where I actually stand on this issue or what guns are currently in my own home.

                    So tell us, unequivocally, where you stand.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post

                      I do contribute
                      If I seem "off the rails" it has nothing to do with owning firearms, it's due to the ignorance of your arrogance (and possibly the other way around), lack of reading comprehension, and your need to rely on projection rather than facts.

                      What makes you think I'm an NRA member or would otherwise support them? Over 90% of gun owners aren't NRA members, yet this is the almost always the first fallacy that people clamor towards. It's the laziest straw man used by the uninformed out of convenience and the incapability of producing an original thought. Not that you've bothered to ask, but I'm not a member

                      I never said I NEED an AR for home defense. I said I chose it because I've determined it is the best firearm for the job, especially as configured. I still haven't heard what is a better gun for defense by you or anyone (other than Cale, to which I've addressed). You have yet to tell me what would be a better gun for self defense, and I assume that is because you are in fact the one ignorant to firearms and their function or don't believe they should be used for defense. If the latter is the case, that is fine. You do you. I don't advocate that everyone should arm themselves, especially without training. You again arrogantly presume that I haven't taken it upon myself to train more than the average person. You disagree with me and somehow that makes you assume that your opinions are somehow more valid.

                      I didn't address the security of my home because I've already taken into consideration everything you've arrogantly assumed I haven't. I have taken several reasonable steps to make my home an uninviting target to opportunistic thieves. I am not going to turn my home into a prison with bars on the windows because, regardless the amount of security you have in place, it can be overcome.

                      Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
                      See, if a intruder has already made it into your home, then you failed at securing your home.
                      You seem to suggest that should I have "failed" at home security that my fate should then be decided by the person intruding into my home. That seems like an awful lot like victim blaming. That is fine if that is how you want to live, but I would rather have a dog in that fight.

                      As for me being afraid of bumps in the night, you're either back to projecting your own issues or again are just to feeble minded to comprehend, so I'll try to spell it out for you. I don't own guns because I'm afraid of someone breaking into my house and taking my shit. I have one because should someone decide that they want enter my home to do harm to me or my family, I am better equipped than they are. Better equipped doesn't just mean a gun. It means I'm equipped with the knowledge of what to do, how to react, and the tools to do so should the need arise. I don't own fire extinguishers because I'm afraid of fire. I own them so in the event that a fire occur I can potentially do something instead of standing there with my thumb up my ass waiting for the boys with the big water hose. Statistically I'm more likely to be victim to a home invasion than a house fire, so I don't see why this is such a difficult concept to comprehend.

                      No one "on my side" has wondered why every time there is a mass shooting the gun was purchased legally. It perfectly illustrates why gun laws are so ineffective. It also has to do with how easy it is for the wrong people to buy guns, because those laws are so ineffective. You seem to think that just because I don't agree with the idea of passing more ineffective feel good gun laws, that I don't think we should be trying to keep guns out of the wrong hands. As the self fulfilling prophecy goes, you're wrong yet again.

                      Originally posted by digger View Post

                      Here are my opinions on legitimate reasons why someone might want to procure such weapons :
                      - worn torn location lots of civil unrest
                      - rural area with dangerous wildlife e.g bears
                      - live in bad area and have had had armed individuals threaten you in your home or people close to you before.

                      most people don't fall into those categories

                      not so legitimate reasons
                      - guns are fun
                      - the law says I can
                      - had an iPhone stolen once
                      - just incase the off chance someone breaks in one day to kill me
                      - zombies
                      I would say shooting a bear with an AR15 is tantamount to animal cruelty, due to the small caliber and ineffectiveness against an animal of that mass and skeletal structure. I also don't see how being threatened by someone would otherwise condone owning an "assault rifle" over any other gun. I would argue your not so legitimate reason list could be applied to several more dangerous things in our country, yet you'd probably disagree. I don't think your opinions are coming from a place of malice, I think they're underdeveloped and uninformed. And you know what? You're entitled to your opinions as they are, or you can try to convince me otherwise. I don't expect you to share mine and that seems to be the biggest speed bump in what was supposed to be a conversation. My only reason for engaging in the first place was to try to share the my opinions so they could be understood. I'm more than willing to listen to a differing opinion and, if it's more sound than what I currently believe, I can even embrace it.

                      Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

                      Jesus and the Slippery-Slope Fallacy.
                      I tend to believe it's the lazy argument, but please humor me.

                      The statistics show that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are committed with handguns. Say we go ahead and pass a law banning all form of assault rifles. You have to concede that while it may lower the body count per mass shooting, it's not going to prevent or conceivably lower the number of mass shootings with handguns going forward because it does nothing to target the cause of mass shootings. So at that point, we've either reached an acceptable death threshold per mass shooting, or the next logical step would be to ban handguns wouldn't it?

                      Please do share where you stand. If for no other reason to prove that you didn't just start this thread to shit on everyone you disagree with.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                        So a document written with feathers is no longer valid? Is that your point?

                        As to "God Given right", not all founding fathers believed in God. However the point was still the same, this is a right that precedes any laws. Too many don't understand the difference between a right, and a privilege. A foolish mind thinks safety/security is worth losing freedom over. A government can only remove rights/privileges, not grant them.

                        BTW, what you quoted has nothing to do with feathers.

                        Don't forget that genocide, tyranny and loss of freedom starts with disarmament. Our country can become war-torn once again.
                        Thank you for making my point for me. You can't actually create an argument yourself, you legitimately think you need to explain things like 2a as though you're the only one who understands. The purpose of discussion is to delve deeper, and all you do is consistently yell from a soapbox like a street corner preacher who thinks the sign they're holding is the argument. We understand what's on the surface, now try and explain the why beyond a grade school level.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by varg View Post
                          OP here's the problem. You've put anyone who disagrees with you on the defensive and galvanized their positions the second they start reading. Saying stuff like is just grandstanding and trolling. It reads like a 4chan post, and it isn't productive. It says you're not here for answers, you're here to morally grandstand and belittle people who disagree with you. Do you think that there's something wrong with people who believe they as law abiding citizens should have access to weapons as guaranteed by the Second amendment? Your language belies someone ideologically opposed to the idea of an uninfringed second amendment and that nothing anyone says in here would make you even consider anything else so why bother?

                          You want a real solution? There isn't one. Maybe if the 24h "news" cycle stops making shooters household names overnight, essentially glorifying their actions, broken people will be less inclined to do it to seek infamy. But they aren't all seeking infamy, some of them are just evil and want to kill people whether it means parking a truck in front of a building and blowing it up, plowing over a crowd in a challenger or shooting up a club. Maybe making it harder for the mentally ill to have guns will stop some of these scenarios, but how do you prove someone is mentally ill legally, and how do you detect it when they've shut the world out and have no connections? Making it impossible for good people to get guns they want and have the right to own is not going to stop anything bad from happening, and there's no way to suss out all of the bad people without catching innocent people in the net and violating their second and fourth amendment rights. There is a certain element of societal decay at play here, things are extremely divisive right now and there is little national unity, but the FBI crime statistics bear that there is and has been a significant downward trend in all violent crime over the past 30 years. You wouldn't think that based on what the charlatans on the TV and in the political arena say. The 24h "news" cycle and its constant fearmongering is deliberately designed to make things seem worse than they are because fear keeps eyes on the screen and slows the death of the business.

                          Killing is terrible, violence against the innocent reprehensible, but using it to politically grandstand for an ideologically held position is not helping anything.
                          Great post Varg, thank you.

                          How about we just get society to abide by the law? Law abiding citizens. Seems like a good start to me. I believe a large part of our societal issues stem from the fact that people in general will do whatever they want if no one is looking. People suck.
                          My son has the 1987 325e, 2 door, 5speed
                          I daily the 1989 325i, 4 door, 5speed

                          Comment


                            And yet, people are awesome. Look are everything around you. Not a single thing was built by one person alone. It's a massive amount of community, teamwork, passing on knowledge that got us to where we are today. Society is truly impressive and if the default was that people suck, we'd wouldn't have progressed so far. I believe in humanity. We're getting further along every day.

                            Mental health, guys, this is about mental health. You're so interested in being "right" about 2a rights (whats the point of the 2a if we can't use it to protect the 4th?) or calling AR15s assault rifles (they're not automatic, stop being silly. I don't see anyone complaining about a ruger mini-14) you guys don't even care about fixing the underlying issue.

                            But please, keep jerking yourself off over "my selectively chosen and useless to argue about rights" and "this gun is bad but this other gun of equal capability is ok."
                            AWD > RWD

                            Comment


                              I hear you Kershaw and in an existential sense you’re obviously correct. I just hate the fact that I have to close my windows and lock my car when I go to the store to buy a pound of ground beef. We should be able to trust each other enough to respect others’ property. I, obviously, get bogged down in the little daily misdeeds.

                              I completely agree with the mental health aspect here. It’s overly simplistic, but if there weren’t guns it would some other instrument of anger directed at other people.
                              My son has the 1987 325e, 2 door, 5speed
                              I daily the 1989 325i, 4 door, 5speed

                              Comment


                                You (cale) and Z31 keep trying to restrict rights, therefore showing that you do not understand the basics of these rights. Why advance the topic further when the basics are too hard the two of you? Then you throw other ideas, such that the age of an idea is silly, further showing your limited understanding, desire to be disingenuous and mocking.

                                These rights are worth fighting over, but the conservative right, will not be the ones starting a war. They will be the ones trying in courts first, practicing on the streets saving ungrateful lives, before we start tossing high velocity sticks.

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