PNW Chit Chat thread

[Rennsport]

Why is an m52 110lbs heavier than an s52?

[ahrensNW]

I'd argue that an s54 is heavier than a v8.

Still, great list, wish I would have seen it earlier.

Also guys, still looking for that e34 530i 5 speed lol.... halp meh

[spiDmang]

Hahaha most definitely not, just rough estimates, I mostly went off of this: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=233682

I tried to account for trans weight as well, so that is probably why they are a good bit higher than those you linked?

I can tell you right now, the S54 & LS would cost you nearly double those estimates. Motor and trans alone can run you $6k without any of the swap parts.

S14 E30 for $3k? not gonna happen.

[2mAn]

Rough not Rought

[5Toes]

that chart is whackkkkkkk

also the numbers are sorta hard to digest without a power to weight ratio to compare

[IronJoe]

Evening guys, I want to share a small chart I whipped up to compare a couple engine swap options against stock E30s and E36's. It's not very extensive, and probably lacking in accuracy, but it was a good starting point for me and I hope it may help someone else:



*Costs for swaps presented represent the swap not the entire car.
*All weights in pounds, times in seconds and torque in lb-ft.

I like the idea. It would be pretty cool if this was hosted somewhere that we could all pitch in and edit with our setups, and also our costs so you could get an aggregate value based on real data.

Also a few questions: is the 0-60 for the original source vehicle with that engine, or is that the 0-60 for the result of that engine being swapped into an E30? Also we could add in other parameters, I know personally 0-60 times don't matter nearly as much to me now as they once did. Stuff like max HP and ft-lbs with corresponding RPM data as well as rev limit might be useful too. I know my swap probably has one of the worst cost-benefit ratios if you are just looking at HP and 0-60 times :razz:

Also (and I don't quite know how you'd quantify this) but there is something to be said for the "potential" a motor has. Swapping a stock M20 for a stock DOHC inline six may not create massive HP and torque gains on its own, but it may provide for a higher ceiling with respect to tuning.

Lastly, maintenance could be factored in as well including the weak points/trouble spots for each motor. All other things being equal, it might help someone make a decision on a swap by looking at what the maintenance for each would be like.

Rough not Rought

But I like it rought.

[5Toes]

no m30 swap on there either..? whatever happened to that fad lol

[Metallated]

Why is an m52 110lbs heavier than an s52?

I think I accidentally got the weight from a euro alloy block S52, good catch.

I can tell you right now, the S54 & LS would cost you nearly double those estimates. Motor and trans alone can run you $6k without any of the swap parts.

S14 E30 for $3k? not gonna happen.

Damn okay, thanks for the insight on the S54 and LS swap prices, they were so far out of my budget I never researched them that much. Cost is difficult to determine because it varies so much based on how thorough you want your swap to be and where you get your parts and if you do the labor yourself...

Not sure why you mention the S14 though?

I like the idea. It would be pretty cool if this was hosted somewhere that we could all pitch in and edit with our setups, and also our costs so you could get an aggregate value based on real data.

Also a few questions: is the 0-60 for the original source vehicle with that engine, or is that the 0-60 for the result of that engine being swapped into an E30? Also we could add in other parameters, I know personally 0-60 times don't matter nearly as much to me now as they once did. Stuff like max HP and ft-lbs with corresponding RPM data as well as rev limit might be useful too. I know my swap probably has one of the worst cost-benefit ratios if you are just looking at HP and 0-60 times :razz:

Good thought about creating a place we can all add or swaps to! I like the idea of it all being condensed and easy to look through and compare. The 0 - 60 times are based off their power to weight ratio of the swapped engine in an e30, but I didn't know how to account for wind resistance in excel so the faster ones are slightly slower than what my excel sheet got.

no m30 swap on there either..? whatever happened to that fad lol

Look closer...

[djjerme]

The problem with these kind of charts that include cost, is too many variables.

If I hit an auction and pick up a wrecked E36 M3 for pennies on the dollar, of course it's going to be a cheaper route to go then others. But then, you have to figure labor (if you don't do it yourself) and consumables. Some people are just fine with throwing a 200K motor in their car and calling it good without replacing belts/hoses/rubber..etc.

If you are only concerned with 0-60, or 1/4 mile times - the cheapest route to that is going to be a power adder. (i.e. NOS, turbo..etc.) And even those are subjective to diff ratio/tire compound and height.

[DaWildBeast]

The problem with these kind of charts that include cost, is too many variables.

If I hit an auction and pick up a wrecked E36 M3 for pennies on the dollar, of course it's going to be a cheaper route to go then others. But then, you have to figure labor (if you don't do it yourself) and consumables. Some people are just fine with throwing a 200K motor in their car and calling it good without replacing belts/hoses/rubber..etc.

If you are only concerned with 0-60, or 1/4 mile times - the cheapest route to that is going to be a power adder. (i.e. NOS, turbo..etc.) And even those are subjective to diff ratio/tire compound and height.

These charts need to add price of full rebuild and a regular craigslist motor to be anywhere near accurate. And most of us are going to want a swap kit with motor mounts and other stuff which for ls swap i know costs 1500-2000 so yeah

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[spiDmang]

Damn okay, thanks for the insight on the S54 and LS swap prices, they were so far out of my budget I never researched them that much. Cost is difficult to determine because it varies so much based on how thorough you want your swap to be and where you get your parts and if you do the labor yourself...

Not sure why you mention the S14 though?

$16,000 for an S14b23....obviously you can find other candidates for cheaper, but that's where the market is headed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-S14-E30-M3-Engine-and-Transmission-Complete-RARE-OPPORTUNITY-/182543515916?hash=item2a8071010c:g:WKQAAOSwE0JY~hQ1&vxp=mtr

My previous S52 car cost me $6k flat to build (my own labor). Costs would have been higher if i didnt have so many parts readily available at my disposal. I also refreshed the entire engine.

The S54 could easily reach HIGH teens if you completely refreshed the motor.

Dont get me wrong, if you need to plop in a junk yard motor into your car to get it running and driving, more power to you. But chances are, 9/10 times, you'll be back in that engine bay shortly trying to fix something else.

[Metallated]

Good points regarding costs, I understand I probably underestimated the price of some of the more advanced swaps...

As you've all mentioned the prices vary widely depending on how extensive you want your swap to be and how lucky/resourceful you are. I only have personal experience with the M52 so I appreciate all of your opinions and experience.

If anything this shows how useful it could be to compile a database of all the swaps and how much it has cost people as ironjoe recommended.

The list, and especially the costs, are meant to give rough(t) ideas about what swaps to look into and research more thoroughly. I'd be very happy if we all contributed though and it became highly accurate and concentrated source of swap info.

[spiDmang]

Good points regarding costs, I understand I probably underestimated the price of some of the more advanced swaps...

As you've all mentioned the prices vary widely depending on how extensive you want your swap to be and how lucky/resourceful you are. I only have personal experience with the M52 so I appreciate all of your opinions and experience.

If anything this shows how useful it could be to compile a database of all the swaps and how much it has cost people as ironjoe recommended.

The list, and especially the costs, are meant to give rough(t) ideas about what swaps to look into and research more thoroughly. I'd be very happy if we all contributed though and it became highly accurate and a condemned source of swap info.

For sure.

I think the most helpful thing you can really compile that will be consistent across the board is a parts list of stuff needed to get a certain motor into a car.

For example, there is a guy named Neil on here that compiled a list of swap parts and maintenance used to get his S52 motor prepped. Part numbers, costs and availability are all consistent. Motor cost will vary. But by compiling that list, you can tweak what you need, what you want, and how much its going to cost you.

Using that list, I was able to compile my own list, and forecast how much i was going to spend on the entire project. I spent exactly to the T what i forecasted. By doing that, you can get a true sense of what it will take to swap in an aftermarket motor, and see if $/hp is worth it in the end.

[1craze30]

That charts way off. If that was the case I would be doing an m62 swap over most others. I know my m30 swap is gonna cost about 6-8k. That's with hearers, exhaust, maf and chip, and a good cooling system, and too end rebuild.

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[djjerme]

If you want a ballpark average cost, call up one of the BMW shops who has performed these kind of shops and ask what they charge - or if they would be willing to give you a copy of previous invoice for what they charged to a customer who wanted the swap performed. Obviously, you're going to get some extra margin to cover costs, and labor - but it'll get you in ballpark.

Ryan over at Dynasport has done more than a few swaps for customers and I'm sure he has a breakdown for a handful. As does possibly Austin.