M54 Madness, the remix

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  • 2mAn
    Moderator
    • Aug 2010
    • 20029

    #151
    Originally posted by hoveringuy
    Yes, sort of.

    The short answer is 230hp at 6000rpm. I still have a rev limit that I can't get rid of. Somehow it got stuck at 6000 and wouldn't change to 7200.

    My intake cam is also retarded 6 degrees in static timing and the VANOS seals are weak, torque wasn't that strong down low.

    Once I get everything sorted still looking for at least 240.
    Those are great numbers, are those at the wheels, because thats damn good!

    I still will never forget you letting me drive your car. What an experience. Absolute torque monster, awesome for a daily driver. Love your updates, keep em coming
    Simon
    Current Cars:
    -1966 Lotus Elan
    -1986 German Car
    -2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI

    Make R3V Great Again -2020

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    • hoveringuy
      R3VLimited
      • Dec 2005
      • 2675

      #152
      Yes, standard Dynojet whp. With Schrick cams and M50 intake it's configured to make power up to 7000 so if the rev limiter hadn't kicked in, who knows?...

      As an aside, I tore down the old engine when the swap was all done. This was the engine that I essentially bought for scrap because it had overheated when it lost coolant. I had to Timecert the block and heat-straighten the head. It was in amazingly good shape. I expected to see upper ring damage or piston scuffing but none.

      Comment

      • Jaker
        Wrencher
        • Oct 2013
        • 234

        #153
        Any plots that you can share? I'm very curious about what the torque curve looks like. As you may remember, I am planning a dual Vanos converison on my 3.0 single Vanos build. I want more area under the curve to the left of the graph.

        Comment

        • mike25
          Noobie
          • Jan 2014
          • 27

          #154
          Originally posted by hoveringuy
          Yes, sort of.

          The short answer is 230hp at 6000rpm. I still have a rev limit that I can't get rid of. Somehow it got stuck at 6000 and wouldn't change to 7200.

          My intake cam is also retarded 6 degrees in static timing and the VANOS seals are weak, torque wasn't that strong down low.

          Once I get everything sorted still looking for at least 240.
          ........... The pull of the Dark Side ? .........

          Top end power figures quoted: bottom end torque loss noted !

          But I guess the real test for a daily drive is - How does it drive in regular daily traffic?
          Last edited by mike25; 09-26-2016, 02:23 AM.

          Comment

          • hoveringuy
            R3VLimited
            • Dec 2005
            • 2675

            #155
            Here's the plot. I'll let everyone digest this and then post the old motor superimposed with this plot.

            Keep in mind, intake cam static timing is off by 6 degrees (more retarded), VANOS seals are weak so the cams aren't tracking that great, ignition timing is probably Ok but not optimized. Fuel seems fine.

            Of course, the 6000 rpm rev limit ghost in the software.

            Still 232 at 6000 isn't a bad start...
            Attached Files

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            • nando
              Moderator
              • Nov 2003
              • 34827

              #156
              if anything, a bit of mechanical retard is helping your top end power - assuming it's the intake cam.
              Build thread

              Bimmerlabs

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              • mike25
                Noobie
                • Jan 2014
                • 27

                #157
                Giving up DISA and /or the new exhaust seems to have cost a lot of torque below 4000rpm?
                Looking back at your earlier dynos this change definitely takes you over to the Dark Side! - Top end high revving power gained at the expense of torque below 4k rpm.

                It would be interesting to see this dyno compared to a stock M50B25, not for absolute figures, but for how the power is delivered. I suspect you've gone a long way to achieving your objective of performance like the M50B25 with a rising crescendo as it comes on song over 4000rpm?
                Last edited by mike25; 09-30-2016, 02:59 AM.

                Comment

                • TheAxiom
                  Member
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 59

                  #158
                  Those headers/close collector are KILLING your low end power and you're probably gaining nothing up top for it.
                  E92 Msport

                  Comment

                  • hoveringuy
                    R3VLimited
                    • Dec 2005
                    • 2675

                    #159
                    Compared to the original motor with ZHP cams and DISA intake....
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • mike25
                      Noobie
                      • Jan 2014
                      • 27

                      #160
                      Originally posted by hoveringuy
                      Compared to the original motor with ZHP cams and DISA intake....



                      At 3250rpm you are down by -35HP & -60 Ft lbs - is there something amiss to affect things this badly?

                      Do you think DISA is giving you the huge 2500-4000rpm gains in the old engine?


                      This was always an experiment, so what are your current thoughts?
                      Last edited by mike25; 10-09-2016, 01:52 PM.

                      Comment

                      • digger
                        R3V Elite
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 5904

                        #161
                        not 100% tuned yet, but them headers and collector......probably never going to provide as broad a power band
                        Last edited by digger; 10-09-2016, 02:32 PM.
                        89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                        new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                        Comment

                        • hoveringuy
                          R3VLimited
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 2675

                          #162
                          Originally posted by mike25
                          At 3250rpm you are down by -35HP & -60 Ft lbs - is there something amiss to affect things this badly?

                          Do you think DISA is giving you the huge 2500-4000rpm gains in the old engine?


                          This was always an experiment, so what are your current thoughts?
                          I expected it to be down a little where DISA is most effective because, seriously, DISA kicks-ass where it's effective. The stock M54 is really great in that band. The stock M54 is a good motor, period.

                          That said, my tuning and configuration isn't as strong as it should be. I'll be going back to stock OBD2 headers primarily because they're more civil, but they'll probably be better than my current headers. That will help.

                          I'll re-time the cams and replace the VANOS seals, which have been very bad at maintaining cam position.

                          It'll be better.

                          Comment

                          • mike25
                            Noobie
                            • Jan 2014
                            • 27

                            #163
                            Originally posted by hoveringuy

                            I'll be going back to stock OBD2 headers primarily because they're more civil, but they'll probably be better than my current headers. That will help.
                            As a scientific experiment it will be interesting to see what just the header change makes?

                            What do your stock OBD2 headers look like?

                            Here in UK we have two quite different versions - the simple early version, which is the same as our M52TU,



                            and had a Secondary Air Pump for emission control, then the later ones have CATs built into the header, which eliminated the SAP?

                            Last edited by mike25; 10-10-2016, 01:21 AM.

                            Comment

                            • ForcedFirebird
                              R3V OG
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 8300

                              #164
                              Take a look at the Spec e46 guys. They are making over 200whp on stock engines using m52 exhaust manifolds (cat-less) and well designed secondaries/exhaust and a Spec tune.
                              john@m20guru.com
                              Links:
                              Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                              Comment

                              • TheAxiom
                                Member
                                • Sep 2015
                                • 59

                                #165
                                Originally posted by ForcedFirebird
                                Take a look at the Spec e46 guys. They are making over 200whp on stock engines using m52 exhaust manifolds (cat-less) and well designed secondaries/exhaust and a Spec tune.
                                Why not Turner or the like Shorty headers? They seem to add a massive amount of power to the low end in comparison to the stock M52 exhaust manifolds.
                                And why not SS style long tubes? They are proven power gainers...
                                E92 Msport

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