M54. Let the foolishness begin.

[e30polak]

Here's what my actual emission looked like with OBD2 cats:

............. HC (ppm).. .....CO(%).. CO+CO2(%)........ O2(%)
limit............ 150........... 1................ 6................ n/a
cruise...........54......... .08 ............14.88............. .25

limit............. 220......... 1.2............... 6................ n/a
idle.............. 64 ........ .01 ...... .... 13.81 ........... 1.58


A suprising amount of the m50 stuff bolts to the M54. I'm using S50B32 exhaust manifolds.

Don't know about S52 cams, but I doubt they would fit as the head is not interchangeable at all.

You can put the crank sensor on the head but it won't do much good...

This.

Just because the manifolds bolt on, doesn't mean the heads are the same. The only single Vanos, all aluminum motor is the m52 in the '97 and '98 2.8L z3. Good luck finding one without actually buying a z3 and swapping the motor out.

[robrez]

After the last several dynos the motor just seems tapped-out and won't gain more with tuning. So, until I find an S54 I have cams on order.

Stock M54 cams are intake 240/9.7 exhaust 244/9.0
ZHP cams are 248/10.0 248/10.0

They are supposed to be good for 10hp/8tq. With my mods I'm hoping for closer to 15.

Only $299 for the whole kit at ECS tuning.

Sorry if I'm just cluttering this thread, but here's a dyno of the m54 3.0 in my Z3 coupe with a cam profile of 272 on the intake and 268 on the exhaust for comparison. Also has ebay headers and a Dinan throttle body.

[hoveringuy]

^^^ Nice gains!

That brings up another issue with the M54:

Where the S50 is happy revving to 7,000 all day, the M54 is notorious for sheering oil pump shafts if revved a lot over 6500.

The S50 can be tracked and flogged for years on end without problems. The M54 will leave you crying if you try that.

The serious people get oil pump upgrades and better harmonic balancers.

[Blackangusinc]

^^^ Nice gains!

That brings up another issue with the M54:

Where the S50 is happy revving to 7,000 all day, the M54 is notorious for sheering oil pump shafts if revved a lot over 6500.

The S50 can be tracked and flogged for years on end without problems. The M54 will leave you crying if you try that.

The serious people get oil pump upgrades and better harmonic balancers.

In what ways can M52TU/M54 harmonic balancers be improved?

[hoveringuy]

The solution is an ATI super-damper.

See

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=758308

and

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=765627

There seems to be a long history of tracked M54s that sheer the oil pump shaft from prolonged revs over 6000.

[Hornung418]

Both the m50 and m52 intake manifolds can physically bolt-on to the m54, as well as the headers for either motor.

Just bumping this up.

Polak, just to clarify, in no way will the M50 or M52 Intake Mani's bolt up to the M52TU/M54 Head. Only M54 Intakes can mount to M52TUs. I've done it to my 2000 328i.

So Steve, is this the cleanest way to run Double VANOS in an e30? I've got my hands on an overheated 528i M52TUB28 similar in fashion to your M54B30. I plan to build it hot and swap it into my e46 328i (No downtime as it's my DD), but if the right roller comes up, I'd rather enjoy a DOHC swap in an e30 or older BMW.

Congrats on the sleeper and cheers!

[hoveringuy]

I will honestly say that the easiest way to run the dual-VANOS motors at this point is to leave the stock harness alone and just run Megasquirt 3 in place of the factory EWS ECU.

You'll still need to do the oil pan, external fuel pressure regulator and adapt a mechanical throttle body but not mess with converting and splicing the harness. Leave the Hall crank sensor on... Megasqirt loves it!

I initially was running Megasquirt 3 last month but was still letting my standalone VANOS controller handle the cams, but I even switched DISA and the intake cam over to Megasquirt control last week and have been very impressed.

It's been a learning curve for me, but being able to auto-tune while you drive is the shiznit.

I've got a blog about it at http://m54megasquirt3.blogspot.com
Yes! Megasquirt is doing variable cam phasing!

Here's what I like about the Megasquirt compared to the 413:

-overrun fuel cut is gradual and much less anoying than the jerky on-off of the 413.
-don't need idle at 900 rpms because 413 would always stall with light flywheel. I can actually idle at 800 and not stall!
-run leaner at low loads and gradually transition to WOT fuel. No more jump from stoich to WOT fuel.
-tuning is extremely easy.

[VinniE30]

^^^ Nice gains!

That brings up another issue with the M54:

Where the S50 is happy revving to 7,000 all day, the M54 is notorious for sheering oil pump shafts if revved a lot over 6500.

The S50 can be tracked and flogged for years on end without problems. The M54 will leave you crying if you try that.

The serious people get oil pump upgrades and better harmonic balancers.

I thought the S50 and all M5x variants had this same issue with the oil pump..

[nando]

their issue was the nut coming loose, not the shaft itself shearing off.

Steve - I didn't know the 413's fuel cut was that harsh. the Motronic 1.3 cut was really smooth, it's always been what I've tried to emulate. It was a progressive "windowed" fuel cut. The standard MS3 fuel cut is on/off. I've emulated the Motronic 1.3 fuel cut by using the VE map (very low KPA cells above 2000rpm set to 0, plus the std fuel cut so the injectors are 100% off). It's buttery smooth, especially compared to my wife's subaru, which is awful. Some people hated it so much they actually clocked the TPS so it wouldn't trigger so early.

[hoveringuy]

Steve - I didn't know the 413's fuel cut was that harsh.

Maybe it was just my tune, but if I had the throttle closed going down a hill or decelerating there was a 2 second delay before all fuel was cut and the car jerked. If I touched the gas it would do it again.

It was annoying.

[Hornung418]

I will honestly say that the easiest way to run the dual-VANOS motors at this point is to leave the stock harness alone and just run Megasquirt 3 in place of the factory EWS ECU.

You'll still need to do the oil pan, external fuel pressure regulator and adapt a mechanical throttle body but not mess with converting and splicing the harness. Leave the Hall crank sensor on... Megasqirt loves it!

I initially was running Megasquirt 3 last month but was still letting my standalone VANOS controller handle the cams, but I even switched DISA and the intake cam over to Megasquirt control last week and have been very impressed.

It's been a learning curve for me, but being able to auto-tune while you drive is the shiznit.

I've got a blog about it at http://m54megasquirt3.blogspot.com
Yes! Megasquirt is doing variable cam phasing!

Here's what I like about the Megasquirt compared to the 413:

-overrun fuel cut is gradual and much less anoying than the jerky on-off of the 413.
-don't need idle at 900 rpms because 413 would always stall with light flywheel. I can actually idle at 800 and not stall!
-run leaner at low loads and gradually transition to WOT fuel. No more jump from stoich to WOT fuel.
-tuning is extremely easy.

Thank you so much for the reply. I will say this: I'm 21...I know the M52TU like the back of my hand LOL...I don't know the e30 platform from Adam. Learning about the e30 is something that is starting to intrigue me. But it will be very hard. I commend you for paving the way for this swap. Again, well done!

their issue was the nut coming loose, not the shaft itself shearing off.

Okay so having been involved with the M54 for almost a year and non-stop reading accounts of failure and the possible solutions, it's been determined that the main cause of OPN shearing and back out, was Harmonic Imbalance. The only real solution for the B30 is the ATI Super Damper mentioned a few pages back. That group buy was such a headache :( But I will mention that this has only been reported in the B30, thus my decision to keep the M52TUB28 as it can handle 7k all day with out fear of Pump Failure and ultimately Engine Destruction.

Steve - I didn't know the 413's fuel cut was that harsh. the Motronic 1.3 cut was really smooth, it's always been what I've tried to emulate. It was a progressive "windowed" fuel cut. The standard MS3 fuel cut is on/off. I've emulated the Motronic 1.3 fuel cut by using the VE map (very low KPA cells above 2000rpm set to 0, plus the std fuel cut so the injectors are 100% off). It's buttery smooth, especially compared to my wife's subaru, which is awful. Some people hated it so much they actually clocked the TPS so it wouldn't trigger so early.

Maybe it was just my tune, but if I had the throttle closed going down a hill or decelerating there was a 2 second delay before all fuel was cut and the car jerked. If I touched the gas it would do it again.

It was annoying.

Gosh, I could only imagine. So this has been remedied, correct?

Still taking it all in, I read this a while ago...maybe 6 months ago...but just read the whole thing again yesterday and the day before.

[moatilliatta]

It's time for an update...

Cylinder head is back from the shop. It was heat straightened and decked .004. Good as new as far as I'm concerned and I'll even use the stock head gasket.

The block had pulled threads and I've installed 30mm Time Serts. Baum tools wants to sell you the 24.5mm ones for this but I've talked to some guys that had those pull out of the block, too. There's a reason no one says "tough as Aluminium". It's not a very tough metal and doesn't like getting hot. My block is fine now.

Anyway, I got the standard E34 oil pump and pickup tube and was messing around with that tonight when I realized the M54 oil pump is all different. Not even close. I will either need to switch in an e36 pump or fabricate a custom pickup tube. The M54 pump looks like it's got a larger capacity impeller. Anyone know for sure?

You be the judge... m50 vs m54 attached.

I would say the larger flow pump being there for the double vanos.

congrats also on the start up. Beware of the DISA valve pin falling out and getting sucked down the intake. Those have a nasty habit of backing out into the intake...lousy design.

Only falls out if you fuck with it.

Stuff like this shouldn't take me so long to figure out.

The motor has been running pretty good but there's been that constant *something* that I just couldn't put my finger on. I thought it was a tune issue but it just wasn't making sense.

The symptoms were that the car would run rich when the ECU was first adapting, but after it adapted it would tend to run lean before the O2 sensor went closed-loop. After it went closed-loop it ran fine. If I stopped at a store on the way home it wouldn't accelerate well when I first left the store, but a minute later it was back to normal.

Everything on the motor that relates to OBD1 has come from an M50 EXCEPT the IAT sensor. It snaps into a plastic fitting on the intake manifold and I figured it had similar values as the M50. It even has the same plug. I never bothered to check.

I finally got an M50 IAT and compared the two....they are substantially different. So far it has changed the driving characteristics quite a bit. I won't call the battle won but it's much, much closer.

The lesson is that the IAT has a huge influence on how the ECU programs fuel (and don't assume anything)

The IAT can effect timing a lot also.

I also logged my MAF signal with the DISA valve open vs closed. It shows that the DISA adds up to around 9% to the flow centered around 3500rpm. I switch the DISA valve at 3900 rpm to have good low speed and high speed flow. The DISA and the additional VANOS advance is what gives the M54 better low rpm torque.

The N52 has a 3 stage intake that has low, medium, and high speed configurations.

I believe they went back to the 2 stage like the m54 on later n52 because the gains wasn't as high as they though and it cost to much to manufacture.

What was interesting bmw doesn't design their newer intakes that has the multiple stages. I believe Porsche design does. Which i though was pretty interesting.

[Leo_328i]

I believe that N52 engines either have DISA or don't have it at all depending on which car the engine is out of.

For the USA market:

The 325/328 engines are 3.0l but do not have DISA at all.

The 330 engines are also 3.0l but has the 3 stage DISA.


For Euro-spec cars

The 323/325 engines are actually 2.5l but have 3 stage DISA

The 330 engines are 3.0l and have 3 stage DISA

The 125i (not called 128i in Euro cars) actually has a 3.0l engine but without DISA.



Proof here, http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/11617522928/

Notice not all N52s have DISA, only the high spec 3.0l engines and Euro 2.5l engines have it. I believe its a cost-cutting measure.

[hoveringuy]

A fun result of running the Megasquirt is that EVERYTHING is on the table for me to examine, probe, measure and attempt to tune to perfection.

I recently discovered a possible cause of an issue that has been going back for years now, which is "why does the engine idle lean after a heat-soaked start?".

The popular theory is that it's from heat-soaked IAT sensor, but I'm finding that it has more to do with the fuel injector itself getting heat soaked. It's doing it even with IAT completely disconnected.

The temperature of my fuel injectors when the engine is running at operating temperature is about 110F and the resistance at that point is 12 Ohms. When the engine shuts down the temperature of the injector rises and settles at about 150F. The resistance is then closer to 12.7 Ohms. This matches the .4%/degree C coefficient for copper well.

My idea is that the higher resistance is increasing the latency of the injectors from 1.07ms to around 1.15ms. Megasquirt is still commanding a 2.2ms pulsewidth, but less of it is going to deliver fuel once latency is accounted for. I'm going from an actual 1.12ms pulse to 1.05ms which is about a 7% reduction.

You guys running huge injectors with tiny idle pulsewidths are probably effected even more!

On the 413 ecu the issue was being corrected after a few minutes from closed-loop O2 feedback and then corrected in short-term trim.

On my car it goes away, too, but is still annoying. I believe that the fuel itself has a huge role in cooling the injector during normal use.

Anyone have data on injector latency vs temperature in addition to the usual latency vs voltage??

[VinniE30]

What's your opinion on US S50/S52 vs M54 reliability?

IMO the biggest advantage of the M54 is the lighter weight.

Ignoring costs and swap difficulty I would rather have the M54 for that reason.

Seems we have established that with some bolt ons, power is very close, with M54 having slightly more lower rpm power, and S50 having slightly more higher rpm power.

Is the only advantage the S50 has over the M54, as far as output, the porting and cams? Intake and exhaust stuff can obviously be changed relatively easily and is not part of the engine.
I see the iron block as just potentially better reliability if it's going to be tracked hard.