for people who have rebuilt the m20

[redlightpete]

ForcedFirebird, when you say the VR and Elring HGs are the same, do you mean that they are made by the same manufacturer and repackaged, or that they are equivalent quality? I haven't read of any Elring ones leaking and I was planning to use the one in my kit. Thanks

[ForcedFirebird]

ForcedFirebird, when you say the VR and Elring HGs are the same, do you mean that they are made by the same manufacturer and repackaged, or that they are equivalent quality? I haven't read of any Elring ones leaking and I was planning to use the one in my kit. Thanks

All gaskets are made by just a few companies. Goetze, VR, Elring and FelPro are all under the Federal Mogul umbrella. The Goetze is clearly different from the rest, weather or not they are repackaged, I couldn't tell you. If you held them in your hands at the same time there's a huge difference in quality. Two of the biggest things that stand out are the size and quantity of the silicone stripes, and that the inferior ones have the head bolt hole and oil drain passage as one hole in the gasket. I posted pics of the differences years ago on e30tech, but that's all gone now :(

[Supratreo]

^^great info.
If anyone has pics that would be great.

[uturn]

I'll get right on it. .. I have a VR and an Elring I can snap a photo of.

[digger]

https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E30-325i-M20_2.5L/Engine/Gaskets_-and-_Seals/Cylinder_Head/

[Cayoncrusier93]

I went OEM BMW+copper spray all over it, haven't looked back.

[uturn]

Thanks digger, I misplaced my VR gasket. Close up of the elring

[Bullet Ride]

^^great info.
If anyone has pics that would be great.

On the motor is Goetze in the bag is VR

[Maddog]

Recommend using factory head gasket. I used a Goetz head gasket when I had my engine build after being told to stay away from VR. It developed a leak after several years and decided to go with factory. There are certain parts that is just better stay with factory parts and it's my experience a dead gasket is one of them.

[digger]

On the motor is Goetze in the bag is VR

when i used goetze last time mine looked like yours, however when you goto ECS the goetze dont look like that anymore....

[mrsleeve]

I will agree OEM for H/G (unless there is a documented issue with the OEM and the aftermarket has a proven better unit) and the FPIG for toyota is magical stuff for things like oil pans, timing covers, and valve covers etc... Its how toyota sealed the pans on my 20year old 200k mi, FZJ80 that is just barley now starting to seep at the rear arch......

[ForcedFirebird]

Recommend using factory head gasket. I used a Goetz head gasket when I had my engine build after being told to stay away from VR. It developed a leak after several years and decided to go with factory. There are certain parts that is just better stay with factory parts and it's my experience a dead gasket is one of them.

Strange. I have used several dozen Goetze on client cars at my shop over the years and have the exact opposite results, even several of them o-ringed and boosted. I held the Goetze, OEM, VR and FelPro in my hands at the same. Again, too bad e30tech is gone (so are the pics I had). The oem and Goetze are nearly identical, and the VR/Elring/FP are to eachother as well. In fact you can even tell the MLS MFGRs were too cheap to buy a real gasket to model from, they all mimic the lesser gaskets with the oblong hole. Another thing to note, the MLS/VR/Elring/FP all have the hole too small at the front of the engine where the alignment dowel goes through.

[SkiFree]

John,

Out of the many I've had hands on, I've noticed that there seem to be batch variations. I had two Elrings at one point that were bought a few years apart and were completely different (they were both still sealed in original packaging. There have also been instances where I ordered just the head gasket and then the kit from the same brand, only to find differing HG's inside.

Had some pictures I will post on Monday that directly refute some of what was on e30tech

[TobyB]

I too have noticed Elring being different than VR, but that was years ago.

Likewise, Fel-Pro changed a few times.

Beck- Arnley's the wild card- they quite often put good stuff into their boxes,
and sell it for far less than you can find it elsewhere. Or sometimes it's just the
same old shit.

t

[zaq123]

I've used copper spray on cometic MLS gaskets (crush type, not coated) for big bore high compression builds on dirt bikes with great results.

However, BMW OEM or any other oem type HG has those sealing lines (Viton??) that don't do well with Acetone. Permeatex Copper Spray can have up to 40% of Acetone in it. Viton is no no with ketones . I believe MLS Cometic for M20 is Viton coated as well....

PS. some links

https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/uploads/tech_docs/sds/01_USA-English/80697.pdf

https://www.winzerusa.com/ecat/docs/Chemical_Compatibility_VITON.pdf