S14 - Overrrated or Underrated?

[Panici]

If going to the track is where its at, a modern 4 cylinder with 250 HP would be a real fun time. I have not actually seen the Honda K swap done. Maybe that swap worked out for someone but I haven't seen one.

K24 swap would be great in either an E30 or Miata.
Fits the ethos of both chassis, keeps the weight down, and has enough power without needing boost.

[reelizmpro]

Let's not forget BMW had a lot of success with their 4 cylinder engines back in the day. They even have a 4 cylinder building in Munich. As for the S14, the short story is they had the F1 proven block already, they cut 2 cylinders from the M88 cylinder head and put it all together in 14 days. They have been quoted as saying they went with the 4 cylinder because the shorter engine meant less weight in front of the wheels and shorter crankshaft had better harmonics for sustained high RPM's required for racing. Mercede's Cosworth developed 2.3-16 engine came out first, was very successful in their W201 baby benz 190 and I'm sure BMW was taking notice. Unfortunately, the street 2.3-16 (particularly the US version), is an even farther cry from the race car than the E30 M3.

[2mAn]

Unfortunately, the street 2.3-16 (particularly the US version), is an even farther cry from the race car than the E30 M3.

QFT

My brother has a Gray Market version which is less so and has been my only experience in any of these 4 cyl 80s German cars that were the Street Version of DTM monsters

[strickland]

What DTM goodies are available to bring the street S14 performance up? Any parts interchangeable that can also be added on an M20?

[reelizmpro]

There are catalogs of Evo, grp A, N parts devoted to the M3. None of the S14 parts will work on an M20 though. They are completely different engines.

[moatilliatta]

Carbon airbox, Stand alone, good exhaust got 185 on a dyno jet on a old motor. Still 4 cyl tq, but really wakes it up. Brap!

[strickland]

There are catalogs of Evo, grp A, N parts devoted to the M3. None of the S14 parts will work on an M20 though. They are completely different engines.

Appreciate the info. Where are these catalogs?

[reelizmpro]

Appreciate the info. Where are these catalogs?

I have a burned copy of the CD with the catalogs. They might be uploaded somewhere on the net...who knows.

[packratbimmer]

Clearly BMW built the M3 for the track or autobahn. It is a high reving horsepower engine sitting in front of a Getrag 265 and a medium case 4.10 differential. Those specs pretty much sum it up for me.

[strickland]

I’m still loving this thread. Who else has kept the S14 & modified it, rather than swapping the engine?

[kronus]

I have one. It has bad harmonics I've been chasing for a while. It's gutless during normal driving. Maintenance items can be hard to come by. Makes cool noises tho.

Thinking about putting an S54 in instead.

[strickland]

I have heard this a lot — the E30 M3 isn’t as much fun to drive on the street. Would it benefit (at lower revs) from different transmission or gear ratios?

Totally hypothetical here. Just curious.

[reelizmpro]

I have heard this a lot — the E30 M3 isn’t as much fun to drive on the street. Would it benefit (at lower revs) from different transmission or gear ratios?

Totally hypothetical here. Just curious.

Yes, there are close ratio transmissions but they are expensive. Some people installed 4.27 and 4.45 differentials which helps but they also have to shift more. There is a trade off.

[BlackbirdM3]

I have heard this a lot — the E30 M3 isn’t as much fun to drive on the street. Would it benefit (at lower revs) from different transmission or gear ratios?

Totally hypothetical here. Just curious.

Isn't much fun to drive on the street? Say what? Where else are you going to drive it? Do you need to go 150 mph on the street? Nope. Its a ton of fun to drive on the street. I've been doing so for the past 120K miles. Its not a stoplight drag race car, if that is what you want, go buy a POS rustang or corvette. The M3 is the wrong car for you, and you will never be happy with it. Oh, you want to go roost a back road who's longest straight is 200 yards? Yes! Now you have the right car. Yep, 5K rpm in 3rd gear, and NOTHING will touch it. Just running errands around town? It will happily do it without complaint. Running down the freeway for 18 hrs on end? Yep it will do that just fine, but it will be happiest spinning along at 3400 rpm with a light load on the engine. Oh, it will repay you for your choice buy pulling 350+ miles between fill ups.

An S54 will eat its rod bearings because it feels like it. There was a class action lawsuit over this issue. The S52 isn't a real S engine, the S50 is, but isn't a US engine, the S38 is a great engine, but its the wrong choice for an M3, and doesn't fit without damaging the hood. Sure, there are other choices, but when you get right down to it, the S14 is a very good, detuned race engine. It likes revs, but will be totally driveable if you put around town an 2K rpm. Lets face it running around town isn't fun. Okay you can run around in 2nd gear and then the car is just urging to go, but oh, you are stuck in traffic, so not going anywhere anyway.

The S14 is a combination of the F1 engine and the M88 from the M1. Both engines are legendary, so the combination of the two is equally legendary. You just have to understand it.

[e30davie]

I went for a drive in a 2.5L m3 once, years ago. It was a bloody riot at any speed on the street. makes all the cool noises and has plenty of go to get a small 80s car scooting along. This idea that its "not much fun on the street" seems absurd.

but a 4age 16v is a riot on the street too, half the horsepower if not less, 1/10th of the cost.....if not less. so I dunno, maybe my definition of "fun" is wrong.

The "modern" reviews of e30 m3s seems to paint it as quite underwhelming. and i suppose it is against modern options, but thats also with stocko suspension. they do look seem a bit "boaty" with stock springs. the one I went in had some fancy dampers and springs, it was reaaally good with them.