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Which engine would you choose for a swap?

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    Originally posted by Andrew325is View Post
    Metric Mechanic 2100 Rally
    I don't trust anything MM posts for hp. I have yet to see a MM engine actually put down on a dyno what they claim. Know of two local guys that are still bitter about their MM motors actual numbers.

    So long story short - M54.
    1984 Alpina B6 2.8/1 #35
    1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
    1991 Racecar (Chase Schmidt's former drift car - M30)
    2006 BMW X3
    2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car

    Comment


      Originally posted by djjerme View Post
      I don't trust anything MM posts for hp. I have yet to see a MM engine actually put down on a dyno what they claim. Know of two local guys that are still bitter about their MM motors actual numbers.
      truth spoken
      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

      Comment


        Yeah, I don't have an MM engine, but I built mine with their parts - it's been reliable, but the HP claims are BS.
        Build thread

        Bimmerlabs

        Comment


          Originally posted by djjerme View Post
          I don't trust anything MM posts for hp. I have yet to see a MM engine actually put down on a dyno what they claim.
          I don't know anyone who has a Metric Mechanic engine but it usually seems that engine builders can't stop crowing about dyno results and proudly display their SAE gross engine dyno plots and MM refuses to publish anything but numbers.
          @turbovarg
          '91 318is, M20B25, T3/T04E 60 trim (15psi), megasquirt, coilovers, Z3 rack, cold AC
          [b u i l d]
          [Car of the month: April 2018]

          0c8b7c9527af628a346878feb14bf757

          Comment


            Which of these 3 engines would you choose for a swap? M54, M42/M44 stroker, or S14

            Yup. It’s a little old school mentality when everyone “knew” that camel hump fuelie heads were worth 30+ horsepower. Back when people would walk around claiming 300hp but put it on a dyno and you’re lucky if you threw down 150.

            Somewhere I have the dyno results of the MM 2.5 Rally S14 here in PDX.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            1984 Alpina B6 2.8/1 #35
            1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
            1991 Racecar (Chase Schmidt's former drift car - M30)
            2006 BMW X3
            2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car

            Comment


              Originally posted by Julien View Post
              expand on this, i'm curious to hear it
              Originally posted by wholepailofwater
              Q
              :devil:


              WTB: Dove Grey e36 Front Door Panels (2 door)

              Comment


                This months issue of grassroots motorsports they do a track comparison of a 318is they rebuilt using a metric mechanic stroker engine & a stock e30 m3. The m3 was a few seconds a lap faster around vir and all the testers preferred the m3 even on the street.

                Comment


                  That's because a $10k MM built M42 realistically puts down less WHP than a stock M20B25. :(
                  Build thread

                  Bimmerlabs

                  Comment


                    Interesting, I was looking forward to seeing the results after reading how they wanted to beat the M3. The odds looked to be in the M3's favor because the 318is build was just so damn mild. They seem to have highly overestimated that 2L stroker engine, which is rated at "170hp" on the MM site, and not gone far enough with the suspension, the Eibach springs are pillow soft if this is correct. Assuming the same tires between the cars, 170hp and mild suspension just isn't enough to beat an M3. Still down on power, it would need a huge grip and braking advantage to win. Or they could've just avoided the milquetoast M42.
                    Last edited by varg; 07-16-2019, 07:55 PM.
                    @turbovarg
                    '91 318is, M20B25, T3/T04E 60 trim (15psi), megasquirt, coilovers, Z3 rack, cold AC
                    [b u i l d]
                    [Car of the month: April 2018]

                    0c8b7c9527af628a346878feb14bf757

                    Comment


                      MM make some great parts and the quality seems to be very good in that they generally use quality materials, processes with good machining etc, but their engine combinations simply just dont work anywhere near as well as they could. far too much emphasis on smooth idle and emissions and they are a dog as a result poor specific hp and specific torque on the dyno. the recipe for top performing engine hasn't changed in the last 70+ years, its actually not difficult at all.

                      A NA M42 just needs some cubes, compression, proper head/induction work, tuned headers, proper cams and tuning. choose the parts that work together to be more than just the sum of the individual parts (its always about the combination of parts not how much $$$ are spent)

                      The MM headwork and cam specs leave alot to be desired and its the same on all their m20, m30 etc and since almost all the power is in the induction side and cam if that's wrong the whole engine under performs
                      Last edited by digger; 07-16-2019, 09:02 PM.
                      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                      Comment


                        Did they put on proper tires for the head-to-head? It looks like they shelled out for BBS RG-Fs (at $500/wheel), but then put on Vredestein Sport-trac5s? Which looks like a pretty cheap and mediocre tire. A lot of really strange choices for that GRM build...
                        diamantschwarz 1991 318is

                        Comment


                          Both cars were on Bridgestone direzza dz102 according to the article. The engine put down 143 hp and 130 lb ft on the Dyno.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Caperix View Post
                            The engine put down 143 hp and 130 lb ft on the Dyno.
                            They certainly aren't overdelivering on that 170bhp claim then. Definitely not enough to deliver on Classic Motorsports' hope of "embarrassing" the M3.

                            I'm kinda disappointed, because I have no doubts after following the articles that for what they spent on modding that car you could easily build a streetable E30 that will outpace an E30 M3 on the track. If you go through what they published, $500 on springs and swaybars, $560 on konis, $400 on a diff, $419 on camber plates, $400 on powerflex bushings, $115 on short shifter, $110 on SS brake lines, ??? on steering rack, $2,020 on wheels, $7,500 for the engine. It all sounds pretty par for the course until you get to that $7,500 for 170hp and $2,020 on wheels part. Switch those out for $800 on some RPF1s and whatever an M52B28 with bolt ons and S52 cams costs and you've got that M3 by the short hairs for a hell of a lot less.

                            Off topic, I know. The whole MM being bad for $/hp is beat to death by now in this thread.
                            Last edited by varg; 07-17-2019, 07:17 PM.
                            @turbovarg
                            '91 318is, M20B25, T3/T04E 60 trim (15psi), megasquirt, coilovers, Z3 rack, cold AC
                            [b u i l d]
                            [Car of the month: April 2018]

                            0c8b7c9527af628a346878feb14bf757

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by varg View Post
                              Interesting, I was looking forward to seeing the results after reading how they wanted to beat the M3. The odds looked to be in the M3's favor because the 318is build was just so damn mild. They seem to have highly overestimated that 2L stroker engine, which is rated at "170hp" on the MM site, and not gone far enough with the suspension, the Eibach springs are pillow soft if this is correct. Assuming the same tires between the cars, 170hp and mild suspension just isn't enough to beat an M3. Still down on power, it would need a huge grip and braking advantage to win. Or they could've just avoided the milquetoast M42.
                              I totally agree with them not having done enough with the suspension. I read that last article and was disappointed that they went with Eibach springs. I've read countless posts on here about how Eibach springs on e30s are terrible and way too soft. It seems like Grassroots did their homework on the rest of the build but, I think they would have been better off doing at least a spec e30 suspension (Bilstein and H&Rs) or even a proper coilover kit.


                              '91 318is - Aluminum block M52/ZF/Torsen 3.15 and fresh paint
                              '05 330Ci ZHP 6MT - DD
                              '03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege - Sold
                              '91 318i Sterling Silver project - Sold :sad:
                              '91 325i auto coupe - Sold
                              '90 325iC - Sold
                              '91 318i - Project/dead engine- Sold

                              Comment


                                I listed the MM engine as an example since it’s well-known. If you don’t like their engines then build your own (or find a different builder). I’m sure you could make an M4x stroker that’s comparable to a stock S14 and it would cost less too.
                                Plug and Play Wiring Harness Adapters for S54, S50, M54 and more.

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