NA is best - 3.1L M20 w/ ITB's

[bmwmaster81]

Im using EMU with m20 since some time and can tell it is worth every penny.
There isnt much difference to the other (more expensive) ECUs.

Ist capable to run NA and Turbo and has a lot of Features.
Knock control, Boost contrao, traction control, NOS.

Im running my m20 with Ramas ITBs, retrofitted knock control, Wasted Spark as an example.

Everything works great with EMU.
Also you have an LSU4.2 WBO Controller so just connect an Bosch 4.2 Lambda sensor and you are ready to go.

[econti]

Hey digger, do you have any opinions on the EMU ECU? Rama seems to praise it quite a lot, and I'm not sure if that's because he's got a sponsorship or if it is a great alternative to MS/Haltech/things 3x it's price.

I personally rate it as good for race cars but not as good for street cars as a Haltech.

[digger]

How are you guys getting close to or above 100 torque per liter at the crank?

realistically they probably arent, going from chassis dyno to crank numbers as can of worms

[digger]

looks easy to use and configure. ive not used it myself, though have downloaded the software to look at its capabilities. i think it did everything youd need on a NA m20 from memory and this was a couple years back so they might have a newer version

[mila325]

when time comes for other projects there will be even better solutions out there and at a reduced price so i dont subscribe to the "but i can use it for something else down the line".

Hey digger, do you have any opinions on the EMU ECU? Rama seems to praise it quite a lot, and I'm not sure if that's because he's got a sponsorship or if it is a great alternative to MS/Haltech/things 3x it's price.

[digger]

I understand and agree with you. But, the beauty of standalone ECU's is that they are universally compatible.
Say you want to build or run a boosted S54 down the road? Or maybe even a supercharged LSx swap?
MS CAN'T handle that! Link sells an ECU for the same price as MS3 that CAN handle that!
Why not spend the money once? Rather than having to pay for hardware and software upgrades down the road? You end up saving money and getting better reliability going with a name brand.

MS made a name for themselves as being the DIY solution. At the time, there wasn't any competition at that price point. That's not the case anymore though!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

when time comes for other projects there will be even better solutions out there and at a reduced price so i dont subscribe to the "but i can use it for something else down the line".

[2mAn]

How are you guys getting close to or above 100 torque per liter at the crank?

I think the M20s are pretty underrated/ understressed from the factory.They gave them lower compression for longevity, but add compression to the mix and all of a sudden you get a significant increase in power.

My (aluminum) M52 only has OBD1 manifolds and S52 cams and it put 225whp down which is a conservative 265bhp. I havent even developed a good exhaust system and the intake side is a joke too, all oem.

Im really excited to see what this car makes, and I agree the tune will make all the difference in the world.

[berlow94]

you dont need closed look knock control on a NA m20, nor do you need e-throttle, vanos control and other things that the big names are bringing out and developing further that add cost but offer little real benefit for this application.

for sure the name brand stuff does the simple things better and more robustly but MS is will be able to run the engine perfectly well if its tuned correctly so its a question of budget

I understand and agree with you. But, the beauty of standalone ECU's is that they are universally compatible.
Say you want to build or run a boosted S54 down the road? Or maybe even a supercharged LSx swap?
MS CAN'T handle that! Link sells an ECU for the same price as MS3 that CAN handle that!
Why not spend the money once? Rather than having to pay for hardware and software upgrades down the road? You end up saving money and getting better reliability going with a name brand.

MS made a name for themselves as being the DIY solution. At the time, there wasn't any competition at that price point. That's not the case anymore though!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[digger]

MS2 hardly has any of that stuff. MS3 has some of it. But even then, some of the features MS3 offers such as it's closed loop knock control is next to useless.

Look at Link or Emtron and compare the features. The info is out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you dont need closed look knock control on a NA m20, nor do you need e-throttle, vanos control and other things that the big names are bringing out / developing further that add cost but offer little real benefit for this application.

for sure the name brand stuff does the simple things better and more robustly but MS is will be able to run the engine perfectly well if its tuned correctly so its a question of budget

[MatRacer]

First time I see your car and I must say it looks fantastic! Once done, your setup will be just perfect!

Interesting points of view on the different tuning options...

[berlow94]

MS2 has all of that stuff, MS3 has even more. How is megasquirt not a proper quality engine management solution?

MS2 hardly has any of that stuff. MS3 has some of it. But even then, some of the features MS3 offers such as it's closed loop knock control is next to useless.

Look at Link or Emtron and compare the features. The info is out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mr2peak]

MS2 has all of that stuff, MS3 has even more. How is megasquirt not a proper quality engine management solution?

[berlow94]

NA is best - 3.1L M20 w/ ITB's

I will probably eventually go with MS and a different ignition setup. I've had the War Chip for a while now and it's working alright, but it comes down to how well it'll handle this intake and how easy it will be to make changes. I've also heard Miller is working on an M5x tune for RHD ITB's...



I have been reading your awesome thread like the Bible haha, it's actually what convinced me to go ahead with RHD. I haven't had any issues with the stock injectors on the bigger engine so far and I've got an AFR meter, but I guess if 17 doesn't cut it I'll just go bigger! I'm also planning on limiting to ~6200rpm at this point which should hopefully keep things in check.

I'm copying your catch can setup, though I plan on mounting mine where the power steering reservoir once lived.



Thanks for the tip!

I would re-evaluate your situation. Remember, fancy hardware is only as good as the computer running it.
Pistons typically don't melt and rods typically don't bend from poor manufacturing, they fail from poor engine management. The Miller MAF kit isn't going to know what the F**K is going on. It is not Tuning. Just a poor mans way of changing a couple values in some of the tables of 30 year old electronics.

If your going to spend all of this time and money, the FIRST thing I would be thinking about is engine management. Remember reliability = dollars.

Most guys running their cars on the track with high HP engines are used to pulling the head and giving their motor a "refresh" once a year. This isn't because of "normal wear" it's because of damage to parts that was inflicted by poor engine management.

I've been beating the living piss out of my motor for 3 years in a row now. It has only needed new plugs, oil, and coolant. I have dyno results from the car brand new and 3 years in as well as 30+ channels of 50hz logging for every second of its life. I have ZERO loss of power/torque or reliability. That's only because I invested in a quality engine managment solution (not Megasquirt)

There is a huge difference in a motor feeling strong from the seat of your pants and having actual data to work with. From my guess, you will need atleast 21 or 24# injectors for this setup.

On a stock S52, you can easily reach 80% duty cycle on 24# injectors. (>80% duty cycle means the injector is stuck open. You have zero ability to make adjustments) Especially with ITB's, having an ecu that has the ability to utilize transient tables and use stuff like fuel pressure compensation, e-throttle control, integrated MAP sensor, the ability to work with factory sensors, built in wideband O2 controller, VE fueling, etc. can help grow on your build and save you $ down the road.
Remember, the S54 only opens its throttles 40% until the motor is well into its powerband when you floor it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[iXguido]

How are you guys getting close to or above 100 torque per liter at the crank?

Jaker's specs:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=4715528&postcount=198

And I'd imagine Berlow has something similar, and more displacement helps too...

It takes a lot to get a non-S54 N/A 24v motor to 290 at the wheels. My track car has slightly above 290whp and more torque than that on a dyno jet. It's a fully built up 3.35L S52.

Sorry for the hi-jack. This is an amazing build! Can't wait to see the results.

[Raxe]

I will probably eventually go with MS and a different ignition setup. I've had the War Chip for a while now and it's working alright, but it comes down to how well it'll handle this intake and how easy it will be to make changes. I've also heard Miller is working on an M5x tune for RHD ITB's...

+1 on probably needing more injector. Excited to see your results! I have an S52 rotating assembly in the garage waiting for a similar setup.

I have been reading your awesome thread like the Bible haha, it's actually what convinced me to go ahead with RHD. I haven't had any issues with the stock injectors on the bigger engine so far and I've got an AFR meter, but I guess if 17 doesn't cut it I'll just go bigger! I'm also planning on limiting to ~6200rpm at this point which should hopefully keep things in check.

I'm copying your catch can setup, though I plan on mounting mine where the power steering reservoir once lived.

There are actually quite a few 3.1L M20 RHD cars out there, they just don't get shared in public spaces often.

Car looks great, sent you a PM :)

Thanks for the tip!