N52 Swap Discussion

[hubcapboy]

Yowzaaaaa.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just making sure that when you say "it needs that pin to be able to start" that I take it seriously and don't have a(nother) mysterious reason this thing won't start in 5-6 years when I turn the key :)

[nando]

Yeah, I was talking about terminal 15. it's confusing because there's that "start" signal from the CAS, which the Z4 obviously doesn't have. There's a different code branch that specifically deals with it, but it's only activated in BN2000 mode.

[Bored]

I'm glad y'all understand this pinology... I'm just a neanderthal that fits engine components together like big-kid legos.

[LukeJ]

I'm glad y'all understand this pinology... I'm just a neanderthal that fits engine components together like big-kid legos.

I'm right there with you on this statement. :-)

[hubcapboy]

Speaking of pinology...

I’m stripping the unneeded (auto trans, fuel tank pressure, AC compressor, HVAC) wiring out of a Z4 IVM. I think it’s going to be a much better solution than using the “power harness” from the 330i.

I

1) don’t know which data bus is on pin 22 and pin 44 of x60005 on the msv70... it’s called “L_CAN” on the diagrams, and isn’t connected to the Z4 chassis

and

2) Dont know if it’s valuable to make connections here.

The PT-CAN connections are on X60001

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/20IcTCM

[hoveringuy]

Here's my power harness. I have a standard DME relay and a fuse box for a trailer connection. I just need to remember that "Light" ="Injectors/Coils" and "Horn" = "Coolant Pump", etc. I'll probably revise this in the future to be prettier but it's fine for now.

I'm missing an EKP and need to connect the throttle pedal, that's it. The wiring is actually simple once you understand what's going on and I'm glad Gareth is documenting.

I'd love to connect my OBD plug but I'm not sure how the MSV80 computer I have plugged in connects to the plug, Nando's loving hands will convert the MSV70 that I have with him to the Z4 bus protocol.

[nando]

Speaking of pinology...

I’m stripping the unneeded (auto trans, fuel tank pressure, AC compressor, HVAC) wiring out of a Z4 IVM. I think it’s going to be a much better solution than using the “power harness” from the 330i.

I

1) don’t know which data bus is on pin 22 and pin 44 of x60005 on the msv70... it’s called “L_CAN” on the diagrams, and isn’t connected to the Z4 chassis

and

2) Dont know if it’s valuable to make connections here.

The PT-CAN connections are on X60001

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/20IcTCM

I'm pretty sure you don't need any CAN bus at all, except possibly PT-CAN or K-CAN if you're going to interface with an external module. Even the obd port is only wired for K-line instead of K-CAN on the Z4 and 330i.

[hubcapboy]

I'm going to be running at least the PT-CAN [edit: this is wrong. D-Can, not PT-CAN to the cluster) to a connector to be able to plug in a Z4 cluster (partially because it looks like its so easy, but also because it might be a route for getting a check engine light... the CEL in the z4 cluster is it's own standalone symbol (not in the main LCD) so it may be possible to just light the e30 dash light from that trace.

Slightly more digging... That L-CAN runs to the OBD plug directly on the E83 X3...

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...si-sav/weByGnM

based on this description, it's 50x faster than the K-line:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/20IcTCM

Is there any practical use for this? From the pins it looks like it would be ISO 15765? Does the Z4 software (int the DME flash) even support that protocol?

[hubcapboy]

Real-time update: Here's the useful parts of the IVM module from the Z4/X3. This is part number 12637560626:



And I expect it'll replace most of, if not all, of this harness:



Which is a complete mess that I'd just stuff into a box. I was HOPING that this box would have one set of connectors for dash, C101, and power supply, and another set for DME and engine harness (so it was a clean interface between the car and the engine) but that doesn't seem to be the case. Fuse 2 seems to power some stuff that we don't have (DSC, Ebox fan, etc). If the wire run is less than 4' it could be a 15 amp, so I left it in case there was more to power. Pin 13 highlighted in yellow is unfused power to the transmission controller. Weird that it wouldn't be fused here, but whatever. I'll leave it in for now in case I have more than 10-15 amps to add (which I'd stick on Fuse 2)

There may be enough pass-throughs on this junction board to put everything else that goes out to the C101 (like the oil pressure switch, tach). It would be nice if all the C101 connections went here rather than just disappearing to tapped DME wires. (for instance, the tach signal has to go to OBD and C101... they could split here). We'll see.

[nando]

I'm going to be running at least the PT-CAN [edit: this is wrong. D-Can, not PT-CAN to the cluster) to a connector to be able to plug in a Z4 cluster (partially because it looks like its so easy, but also because it might be a route for getting a check engine light... the CEL in the z4 cluster is it's own standalone symbol (not in the main LCD) so it may be possible to just light the e30 dash light from that trace.

Slightly more digging... That L-CAN runs to the OBD plug directly on the E83 X3...

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...si-sav/weByGnM

based on this description, it's 50x faster than the K-line:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/20IcTCM

Is there any practical use for this? From the pins it looks like it would be ISO 15765? Does the Z4 software (int the DME flash) even support that protocol?

yeah, it's faster - but, it doesn't make a big difference. Flashing the calibration for MSV70 over K-line only takes like 30-60 seconds anyway.

You can't actually have K-line active with D-CAN, and AFAIK, the Z4 calibration only uses K-line for the DME.

[hubcapboy]

OK... this isn't specific to the engine swap, has me pretty excited. I wrote it up over here since it has a broader application than just this engine:

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/e30-technical-forums/suspension-unsprung/brakes-subframe-arms/9953368-new-booster-option-for-e30-bosch-ibooster

I'm unable to put into words how surprised I am that this fits like this, and how excited I am to use this booster. The braking system was a huge chunk of getting my car back on the road that I was completely holding off on until I had confidence I was going to be happy with the engine.

[nando]

dang, that clears the 3-stage manifold by a country mile.

bending some metal pipes to connect to the other side seems trivial.

Now, I wonder what you'd do with the vacuum pump on the N52/N54. It no longer needs it (it's only used for the brakes). I'd have to look, but I wonder if you can just remove it and plug the hole with something else. One less failure point and no parasitic losses.

looking at the diagrams, the vac pump is driven off the oil pump chain. You probably need the sprocket for the vac pump for all the guides and tensioners to function. But I think if you either left the port on the pump open, or gutted the internals and just left the shaft/gear, you could eliminate the (admittedly minor) parasitic losses.
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_3752

[nick496]

Wow, that booster is definitely a game changer.
I guess once you've sorted out the wiring it's all downhill from there.

Looking forward to the finished product so then I can make a start on mine and take from all your learnings along the way.

[hubcapboy]

https://youtu.be/Yrcn3unbwOc

skip to 6 min to see what the pump looks like inside. With that sweep arm removed, the vacuum pump just turns into a guide for the oil pump.

honestly if you aren’t using the vacuum pump, pulling this arm before you plug the vacuum port is a great way of making sure you aren’t sucking air into the engine. I looked into this a little bit when I realized I wasn’t going to be using the pump.

[nando]

cool, I'll have to take apart the one on my junk motor, I assume it's built in a similar way, except it has a sprocket on the other side driven by the oil pump.

heh, whenever that guy says "vacuum pump" it sounds like "fuck you pump".