My Stainless Brake Line Failed Tonight

[e30davie]

People usually replace 30yr old old rubber lines with brand new stainless lines and marvel at the improvement. In my experience brand new rubber lines are also a lot better than 30yr old rubber lines.

I have done the stainless lines in the past, mine have always had a clear rubber sheath over the braid.

The incident in question 3 pages ago is obviously an isolated incident, the braided line didn't fail, either installation or external force destroyed that fitting.

Thank your lucky stars, replace with care and keep on motoring.

[flyboyx]

Again, from the Stoptech website:

"Any time that an object is subjected to internal pressure, it expands. The amount of expansion will be proportional to the amount of pressure present and the rigidity of the holding structure. In the case of brake hoses, we are subjecting Teflon to internal pressures as high as 3000PSI. Because the Teflon is relatively flexible (which makes it ideal for the job in one regard), it will expand under these conditions. This expansion creates additional fluid volume in the hydraulic circuit which is felt by the driver as a soft or mushy pedal.

Rubber overmolding does little to reduce expansion under pressure, as rubber is also a relatively flexible material. A woven braid of Stainless Steel, however, can greatly increase the rigidity of the hose under pressure while still allowing adequate flexibility for wheel end movement. In many cases, this reduced expansion can be felt by the driver as a firmer or more responsive brake pedal."



Do you know what is inside of a stock OE line? Reinforcement braiding. It is not expanding any more or less than a braided SS line.

lol. actually no. the braid in an oem hose is nylon and or cotton. fabric thread has a much greater coefficient of expansion under pressure than stainless wire. especially over time as the hose reaches several thousand pressure cycles. i find it kind of funny that the quote you have above that i copied speaks to stainless line being more rigid as well. i re quoted you in red.

i'm pretty sure we all get the notion that you don't like stainless lines for whatever reason. that is all good with me. but you have been making up little zingers like that this entire thread and spreading it around like chlamydia in an inner city locker room.

its just fine to say that you like oem better, you feel safer with oem, you think oem is of better quality, you think everyone should buy oem and not stainless.....just go easy on the ross perot "facts" please.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

lol. actually no. the braid in an oem hose is nylon and or cotton. fabric thread has a much greater coefficient of expansion under pressure than stainless wire. especially over time as the hose reaches several thousand pressure cycles. i find it kind of funny that the quote you have above that i copied speaks to stainless line being more rigid as well. i re quoted you in red.

i'm pretty sure we all get the notion that you don't like stainless lines for whatever reason. that is all good with me. but you have been making up little zingers like that this entire thread and spreading it around like chlamydia in an inner city locker room.

its just fine to say that you like oem better, you feel safer with oem, you think oem is of better quality, you think everyone should buy oem and not stainless.....just go easy on the ross perot "facts" please.

They are alternative facts

[Sirdaft1]

My understanding about stainless braided brake lines is that they don't generally give an external, visual indication that the line is about to fail. They just fail.

Rubber lines generally give external,visual signs of distress before they fail which some people feel more comfortable with.

Precisely.

Unfortunately the internet is loaded with 16 year old SS fanboys that make every claim about their lines just short of them being the second coming. That said, can we all agree that there is quite a bit of marketing hype around SS lines and there are some dubious claims that continue to be made? The reality is, so long as you are dealing with a quality SS, they'll perform equally to fresh OE rubber.

That said, did you swap from old OE rubber lines to SS and feel a noticeable difference in brake feel? Congrats, that's called flushing your brakes. You probably should have done that years earlier.

And I'll leave it at this... nearly every Spec e30 racer I've spoken with uses OE rubber lines with stock rotors/calipers with upgraded pads/brake fluid.

[nando]

I'm 16? shit...

I don't think anyone has ever talked up SS lines that much. Sheesh.

BTW, my rear inner lines are still the same SS lines from IE - I think I put them in back in 2002 or 2003? I actually have a "new" set to put in, but dropping the subframe to do so isn't at the top of my priorities. :p

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Precisely.


That said, did you swap from old OE rubber lines to SS and feel a noticeable difference in brake feel? Congrats, that's called flushing your brakes. You probably should have done that years earlier.

And I'll leave it at this... nearly every Spec e30 racer I've spoken with uses OE rubber lines with stock rotors/calipers with upgraded pads/brake fluid.

So then how come when i put new rubber lines and fluid in my daily it felt the same as before and then when I put SS lines on my other car the peddle was noticeably stiffer feeling. I noticed the most difference from Rubber to SS when I did my clutch line. The clutch is way stiffer now.

[Northern]

All of this has nothing to do with OPs post with a clearly deformed and broken metal fitting.

Lorin gets it. This has nothing to do with stainless vs stock lines.

The fitting itself is completely mangled, something ripped that out of the caliper.

[TobyB]

chlamydia in an inner city locker room.

fertile pastures

the growth possibilities are... disgusting...

t

[varg]

There's nothing wrong with teflon lines covered in woven stainless braids, as long as you buy quality stuff, period. This failure has nothing to do with the type of line anyway, the fitting failed, it was most likely physical damage (impact, fouling, sabotage?) or a quality issue.

FWIW, teflon/stainless combo lines are commonly used for high pressure hydraulics and brakes in the aviation industry, and have been for a some time. The configuration is good enough for rigors of testing and certification during long term use in the aviation industry, so it's good enough for me, I just won't buy cheap "race look" crap.

Also FWIW, I've never felt a significant difference between OE lines with a fresh flush and stainless lines. When I switched over on my E30 the difference was perceptible, but the fluid was last flushed when I bought the car so it had a year or so on it, a combo of new fluid and new OE lines probably would've made the same difference in feel. I flush my brakes relatively frequently. On my motorcycles, I've never felt any difference at all.

[peteWine]

Let me clear the air on ECS' lines in particular. I would agree that this does appear to be an impact of some sort. OP, please keep me apprised of your communication with our customer service department and anything I may do to aid you here. My email is pete@ecstuning.com.

Our (ECS') Exact-Fit Stainless Steel Brake Lines are indeed DOT-compliant. This isn't a product from a questionable manufacturing facility in a third-world nation: it's one of our bread-and-butter products that we are quite proud of. These are manufactured in-house, here in Wadsworth, OH on dedicated, DOT-compliant brake equipment. We have sold miles of brake line, and since their launch in 2008, thousands of lines for E30s alone.

Our material and equipment supplier submitted stainless lines assembled using the same process used to make Exact-Fit hoses to an independent lab for rigorous testing. Test samples complied with the following DOT test categories:
• Construction
• Constriction
• Labeling
• Volumetric Expansion
• Burst Strength
• Whip Resistance
• Tensile Strength
• Low Temperature Resistance
• End Fitting Corrosion Resistance
• Ozone Resistance
• Brake Fluid Compatibility
• Hot Impulse
• Dynamic Ozone Resistance

Stainless steel brake lines are a safe upgrade from conventional brake lines. They should be properly installed (of course) and inspected with any periodic safety inspection, as you would the rest of your braking system.

[peteWine]

Also, im not a fan of ECS, they do what lots of people like Ireland, or catuned do, and rebrand already made items as their own parts

Sure, some product we sell is private label, but not much. One of our eight in-house engineers brought this thread to my attention.

[reelizmpro]

Arguments aside, let's find out what exactly caused this failed fitting. Is the length the same as OE? quality of the fitting? installer error?

[TheWipprSnappr]

Arguments aside, let's find out what exactly caused this failed fitting

I have a theory...