Which engine would you choose for a swap?

[roguetoaster]

Someone had a SC on their e36 m42 around here. It wasn’t a bad looking kit, but the numbers were not super impressive. Can’t recall though if it was intercooled or not.


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SC (probably DASC) on the M42/4 is neat, and sounds cool, but not a great solution for actual power. Turbo is a superior option, but you might as well just swap to an M50 considering the SC power output.

[Andrew325is]

4 cylinders FTW (S42)

https://youtu.be/fXUO4q92dQ4

[Andrew325is]

Forgot to reply about my experience with Honda engines. My mom had a CRV with a K24A engine that I had the pleasure of working on every now and then. I didn't care for the design decisions the Honda engineers made with that. The transverse layout made it annoyingly awkward to work on and the engine developed a VTC problem that was difficult to diagnose. I replaced the common parts that would most likely be the culprit (strainer & solenoid), but the next step in the diagnosis was to tear the engine apart and inspect the timing chain, which was mostly likely stretched. It appears to be a common issue with those engines. On a Honda forum I read about people who had to have their engine replaced at very low mileage due to a stretched timing chain.

There were other things besides the engine that left a sour taste in my mouth such as a bearing that is pressed into the end cover of the transmission. It eventually spins freely and causes an awful squealing sound. It just doesn't seem like the quality is there with those cars. I think Honda reliability is nothing more than an urban legend.

[george graves]

Bang for the buck? I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would go through all of the trouble of a V8 swap for an engine that makes <300hp, has next to no aftermarket, and limited NA performance potential.

If had phrased it best "scoot her down the road to cost ratio" would that make you happy?

I literally ment cost, to seat of the pants feel ratio. (although once you add in all the other stuff you need, it's not as cheap as a $500 motor/trans, but ya - what good swap is???? :)

[varg]

Forgot to reply about my experience with Honda engines. My mom had a CRV with a K24A engine that I had the pleasure of working on every now and then. I didn't care for the design decisions the Honda engineers made with that. The transverse layout made it annoyingly awkward to work on and the engine developed a VTC problem that was difficult to diagnose. I replaced the common parts that would most likely be the culprit (strainer & solenoid), but the next step in the diagnosis was to tear the engine apart and inspect the timing chain, which was mostly likely stretched. It appears to be a common issue with those engines. On a Honda forum I read about people who had to have their engine replaced at very low mileage due to a stretched timing chain.

There were other things besides the engine that left a sour taste in my mouth such as a bearing that is pressed into the end cover of the transmission. It eventually spins freely and causes an awful squealing sound. It just doesn't seem like the quality is there with those cars. I think Honda reliability is nothing more than an urban legend.

That's a pretty bad one, and out of character for Honda, though in my estimation neglect probably played a part here. The K still has a good reputation and is better than an M42 by far. M42s were dying within warranty due to profile gaskets, there was a TSB on this issue. Multiple M42s are documented on the forums dying when the idler snapped off, imagine how many of the M42 cars in the junkyard over the years have been there because of that. Then there's the crank walk and the cracking heads.

FWD sucks, especially to work on. Not an issue when you swap an F or K engine into an RWD car. Honda didn't go from selling a middling number of cars in the US to one of the best selling brands because of an "urban legend" though. People aren't putting honda engines in all kinds of cars because of an urban legend. I'm not out here saying they're good because I fell for something or own one of the cars, I hate most of them. There are only two Hondas I'd want to own at all; the original NSX or the S600/800 coupe.

If had phrased it best "scoot her down the road to cost ratio" would that make you happy?

I literally ment cost, to seat of the pants feel ratio. (although once you add in all the other stuff you need, it's not as cheap as a $500 motor/trans, but ya - what good swap is???? :)

Ok, we can go with that. Yeah, it never comes down to a $500 motor/trans though. Especially when you're talking V8 swaps. It would be pretty dumb to just drop a $500 M60 in your car without first replacing all of the timing components and fixing the oil leaks, and those maintenance items just doubled the cost of the motor. Then there's the brake issue, and that comes down to more than money, sheer pain in the ass factor. The question is can you do an M60 swap without pulling a dumb stunt like having to replace the timing stuff with it in the car in a year for cheaper than a turbocharging an M20?

[djjerme]

...I wouldn't kick an S2000 out of the garage either.

[varg]

...I wouldn't kick an S2000 out of the garage either.

If they were available as a coupe, I'd be with you. Great cars in many aspects. But convertibles are not my thing, so no S2000.

[325e '87]

Yeah, I know why honda never made a real coupe s2k but dang, if they did there would be a whole lot more people trying to find them as play cars. Ive seen hard top covers but never in person, I wonder if that’s appealing? I guess it still wouldn’t be approved for use on a track though? I don’t really know the rules.

[Zambuzan]

If they were available as a coupe, I'd be with you. Great cars in many aspects. But convertibles are not my thing, so no S2000.

S2ks have OEM hardtops. Boom prob solved ;)

[Andrew325is]

That's a pretty bad one, and out of character for Honda, though in my estimation neglect probably played a part here.

Possibly. One of the pitfalls of buying a used car. A lot of low-mileage engines that have been well maintained by the dealership have failed too as I previously stated.

M42s were dying within warranty due to profile gaskets, there was a TSB on this issue. Multiple M42s are documented on the forums dying when the idler snapped off, imagine how many of the M42 cars in the junkyard over the years have been there because of that. Then there's the crank walk and the cracking heads.

It appears the prematurely failing profile gasket was installed on engines made prior to 11/93. It looks like the idler/tensioner design was improved later on too.

[Andrew325is]

M4x with ITBs sounds pretty sweet.

https://youtu.be/0nysqbIuXJY

https://youtu.be/cQyGOB_uwjk

[jpod999]

Bang for the buck? I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would go through all of the trouble of a V8 swap for an engine that makes <300hp, has next to no aftermarket, and limited NA performance potential.

Low end torque, sound, to be different. Do you want me to keep going? Not everyone wants to deal with the headache of FI for the shitty way that FI engines deliver power...

[varg]

Low end torque, sound, to be different. Do you want me to keep going? Not everyone wants to deal with the headache of FI for the shitty way that FI engines deliver power...

Sorry. Looks like I hit a nerve. LS is better in every way I'm not arguing for forced induction, just saying the bang for the buck argument doesn't seem to hold up too well. And well, if you're going through the mounds of trouble a V8 swap, you may as well put one in there that makes power.

[nando]

Just buy a Camaro - then you can grow a sweet mullet. and it'll probably cost less..

[MrBurgundy]

Yes, let the hate flow..