Wide Body Street car/Time attack build

[moatilliatta]

Is the RF strut tower pulling away from the chassis in the inner fender well where the battery tray pokes through?

[meltingmanmedia]

Is the RF strut tower pulling away from the chassis in the inner fender well where the battery tray pokes through?

It looks like it is a little bit, unfortunately. I know that would affect the camber and castor a little so it's definitely gotta be fixed :/. Im going to do a cage, so might as well make it overkill and tie into all 4 strut towers.


The offset issue is still mind-boggling to me though. Im about to pull the whole front end off to check and recheck every thing. Ill put pics of how off it is under the body separation pics.




I tried to illustrate the difference as best as i could to show how off it is, and if you follow the center tread lines of the tires you can see it there as well.

[ForcedFirebird]

New issues have shown up. Sometimes old cars are fun, sometimes they make me want to toaster bath myself.

If you've read this thread from the start, you've seen the bit about how this car was a track or autocross toy at some point in its life. Wasnt a big deal to me, there was no evidence of there ever being any problems with the frame or it being wrecked at all. But for some reason, the car has about 1" of offset difference in the front wheels. Quite the predicament. This issue wasnt noticed before due to the fact that i couldn't align the front correctly anyways.

But for something to be that far off, there has to be something weird going on somewhere.

So far i have:

1. Measured point to point for all the front end body shop chassis alignment specs and nothing seems to be off at all
2. cross measured front to rear for the subframe using the same schematic for the front
3. set camber plates to match
4. adjusted all control arm heim joints to match down to the exact MM
5. made sure my wheels where the same offset just in case there was a mistake in the casting
6. Kuckles are the same
7. brake rotors are the same
8. fender flares are within 3MM difference
9. ride height is the exact same

Ive literally measured and referenced everything i can to figure it out, and nothing seems to be off except the strut towers maybe.

The strut towers measure correctly to every alignment point aside from across due to me not being able to measure that way with the intake manifold.

The thing that i have found to be different is how far the strut tower is from the fender on each side. The driver side of the car measures from the furthest inside point of the fender to the closest strut bolt 4" exactly, and the passenger side measures to 4.5". Pretty big difference. There appears to be no damage anywhere, and my only thinking is that maybe the car was either just driven really hard without a strut brace, or ran over a curb and tweaked the strut tower maybe. I cant find any factory specifications for where it is supposed to be though and I'm unsure of which side is correct. Im assuming its the driver side that is the correct side though. So I'm expecting to take it to a frame shop at some point and have them pull it back to where it has to be if that really is the issue.

BUT, in the same light, that's affecting camber and castor by a couple degrees, not track width, and that makes the whole thing even more confusing.

I can measure from the frame rail to the brake rotor front and rear and that's where the biggest measurement difference is, and the point of the issue. I really am at a loss for what it is since every thing is the same everywhere else...

Has anyone ever had an issue like this?

If you did X measurements from the strut towers to radiator support and strut towers to cowl corners, then the body should be square. Plus, 1/2" is excessive, you would have hard evidence of it being out of square. That little crack on the battery tray isn't enough to worry about.

Measure the rim lip to the strut tube. I have seen coils welded on crooked, or welded to a knuckle that was previously bent/damaged that caused alignment issues. Had to slice the tube low near the knuckle, bend the tube to close the gap and re-weld.

I've had my fair share of damage control lol... LINK and LINK

[meltingmanmedia]

If you did X measurements from the strut towers to radiator support and strut towers to cowl corners, then the body should be square. Plus, 1/2" is excessive, you would have hard evidence of it being out of square. That little crack on the battery tray isn't enough to worry about.

Measure the rim lip to the strut tube. I have seen coils welded on crooked, or welded to a knuckle that was previously bent/damaged that caused alignment issues. Had to slice the tube low near the knuckle, bend the tube to close the gap and re-weld.

I've had my fair share of damage control lol... LINK and LINK

Thats kinda my thoughts on the cracks, the measurements being off is weird but idk how it got like that. I went back through photos to when it was still 4x100 and it seems this issue arose only after i did the 5 lug swap. Currently in the middle of taking the knuckle/hub assemblies off to measure everything and see if something is bent that isn't apparent while on the car.

I wish it could be the strut tube, but they're e36 mounting style so no welding was done and they're dead straight.

Should be able to update soon after lunch. Might as well order new pads and rotors while I'm at this point too lol. Yay more money spending

[ForcedFirebird]

Yeah, thought about the 5 lug swap after you posted.

I had an e36 race car in a few months ago and couldn't get more than 2.8° on the passenger side with everything maxed, but could get (3.6°) with the other side maxed out. I ended up putting spacers behind the bottom two knuckle bolts and used a crash bolt on the top cross bolt to get camber back. Never really did figure out why, but you seem to have the same issue.

Either way, it's worth measuring the rim lip, or top of the rotor to the strut tube just for sanity. If it's a big difference, may even be able to see it by judging the distance from the tire to the tubes.

[meltingmanmedia]

Yeah, thought about the 5 lug swap after you posted.

I had an e36 race car in a few months ago and couldn't get more than 2.8° on the passenger side with everything maxed, but could get (3.6°) with the other side maxed out. I ended up putting spacers behind the bottom two knuckle bolts and used a crash bolt on the top cross bolt to get camber back. Never really did figure out why, but you seem to have the same issue.

Either way, it's worth measuring the rim lip, or top of the rotor to the strut tube just for sanity. If it's a big difference, may even be able to see it by judging the distance from the tire to the tubes.

That was an idea i had. The spacer back there would work, but i really wish it didnt have to be done like that. Im sure its safe enough to do, Its just killing me to not understand the reasoning.

The strut tower might have some play, theres no way it could effect that much without something else being way off as well. But at this point, the knuckles are the same as far as i can tell and that just leaves me kinda stuck at this point.

[meltingmanmedia]

Beyond confused about this suspension lol. Took everything apart yesterday on the passenger side, inspected it, cleaned it up a little and then put it back on the car this morning. Now the difference in offset at the center of the wheel has gone from 1"+ to about .25"

Whatever, screw it lol. I'm assuming the top bolt on the knuckle and coilover since its oblong on the coilover itself so there's a little movement there so like ForcedFirebird said, crash bolt might be the move, but the spacer thing Im not real sure on now. I just don't really get why it went back together differently... and that big of a difference at that.

My coworker came in my office earlier with the brilliant realization that my strut towers were off (he's usually about 6 days late to any conversation around here anyways so this was no surprise) Idk what id have done if i didn't have him to tell me that...

Getting the strut towers pulled to the correct spot (whatever correct is) is definitely high on the list, but what correct is I'm not exactly sure. A local kid said his both measured 4.75" from the furthest outside strut bolt to the inside of the fender in the engine bay. Mine read 4.5" passenger and 4" driver side.

I don't know whats happening anymore. The front end of the car has been the biggest thorn in my side from the start and it never ends lol

[Digitalwave]

Find a body shop that has a frame machine and the specs for an E30. They will be able to make it better. Probably not perfect, but these cars rarely are. The chassis is a wet noodle and it can get tweaked from even a bad bottoming out. It doesn't take a wreck to tweak them. As long as the body shop can get it fairly close, you can align out the rest, especially with all the adjustment you have.

[meltingmanmedia]

Luckily theres a decent shop around the corner that i could drive the car to without getting in too much trouble. They seem pretty euro knowledgeable so I'm going to give them a shout and see if they can help. This is my biggest/most confusing setback so far so im ready to get it sorted. Im assuming a strut brace and some stitch welding will be enough to get me by for a bit. At least enough to put put around in it on the street.

[ForcedFirebird]

Since the numbers changed when you R&R'd, then the suspension is suspect.

If that top bolt is oblong and has play, then it's already been worked on in the past. That bolt is supposed to be a shoulder bolt and be centered every time. The crash bolt is available and has a narrower shank to allow movement - so you adjust it, then tighten the bolt. The spacer would go behind the two short bolts, but that would only be if you need more negative camber.

[meltingmanmedia]

Since the numbers changed when you R&R'd, then the suspension is suspect.

If that top bolt is oblong and has play, then it's already been worked on in the past. That bolt is supposed to be a shoulder bolt and be centered every time. The crash bolt is available and has a narrower shank to allow movement - so you adjust it, then tighten the bolt. The spacer would go behind the two short bolts, but that would only be if you need more negative camber.

The bolt was definitely still the factory bolt on both sides so that's a good thing. The tabs on the Coilover are more oblong than circular though, assuming for the same purpose as someone using a crash bolt. At this point in this problem solving it could've been a combination of things that got sorted when i put it back together, they're crusty used assemblies and none of it is anywhere near new aside from the control arm setup and the coilovers. Since I went back and tightened everything and lubed things up it's a lot closer as of now. Before I change anything else suspension wise im going to make sure everything is straight, and then work through the issue again. I really wish I had done something that gave me any sort of explanation lol, makes me look clueless, but what's new haha.

Currently, the front is sitting at -5* roughly on both sides. More than my target amount but I'm just going to leave it be for now. It's a little toed in on each side but not to anything extreme. Camber plates still don't match up whatsoever but as long as I'm not tearing through tires and it's not doing weird stuff when it's driven around by the shop I'll just live with it for the time being.

[meltingmanmedia]

Unfortunately, it's been a bit since I've made much progress with the E30. My Grand wagoneer daily has been occupying my time and my sanity. My last update was sorting out why the front of my car end is so goofed up, and I've determined it that i can't determine whether its been wrecked or not lol.

Im going to go ahead and say its very plausible, and some sketchy things will take place to put the passenger side strut tower where it needs to be. My boss has recently bought a K24 swapped 318 and broke it 5 minutes into ownership... But since he's a hoarder and has a giant pile of parts all over the place for the car he can't put back together, I borrowed his new strut brace to "check" how off my car is just for fun.




Strut tower aside, I've busted out the TIG welder that's been collecting dust in my office, and after some impatient practice and deciding I was tired of inhaling the black plumes of smoke the car makes, I've tried to make use of these Ebay long tubes and Xpipe I've had just dumping under the car for a while now.
The long tubes themselves fit, but not very well (to be expected obviously), The xpipe to go to factory-style catbacks was useless to me though. Not a huge fan of how most sound, and I've wanted to attempt to make one for a while now. So i cut the xpipe in half right after the O2 bung (tuning the AFR is much needed) to make an oval-shaped merge instead of splitting apart again. I then ordered a 3" Vband to 3.5" oval pipe adapter pipe from Summit and notched it for the O2 bung so it would slip over the remaining part of the Xpipe and very poorly welded it together. It's not very pretty, but it'll work and hopefully, I can make something a little better for the rest of the exhaust.




Small little update, but I'm trying to get the wheel rolling again! These two things are my biggest holdups at the moment so its good to get some things done to get past them!

[Northern]

I've also had issues with wheels sticking out further/more forward on the left side of the car. Changed a lot of shit and it didn't seem to improve.

[meltingmanmedia]

I've also had issues with wheels sticking out further/more forward on the left side of the car. Changed a lot of shit and it didn't seem to improve.

I'm almost tempted to buy a strut brace of my own and try to pull it some way or another to where it lines up correctly, and if it does ill go through and stitch weld the seams and make sure its all a little stronger than it used to be.

[Northern]

Lift the car off the ground and see if that strut bar gets any closer to lining up.
It looks bad in the pics, but the towers move enough that it's common for e30 strut bars to only fit when the suspension is unloaded.
It won't be the magic bullet to line it up, but it would be interesting to see how much it nets you.