N52 intake shootout

[Panici]

A guy with the supercharged E46M3 came up to me in the paddock and wanted to know why he couldn't catch me, with his 400+whp and all....

Haha that has to be a good feeling! 😀

[DEV0 E30]

A guy with the supercharged E46M3 came up to me in the paddock and wanted to know why he couldn't catch me, with his 400+whp and all....

Nice!

[downforce22]

any onboard video or street driving footage?

[hoveringuy]

any onboard video or street driving footage?

Sure!

This is fastest lap. Not very exciting because there's no traffic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdsRHXirpPc

This one's a little more interesting because I'm drafting a GT3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCn687ZlEks

Overall, I'm just as fast as I was this time last year and I'll get faster in the next few months. The boosterless brakes are a huge change. They work great, but they feel 100% different especially compared to my X3 booster which was very sensitive and an "on-off" switch in comparison. The extra pedal throw triggers my "brake fade!" paranoia and I need to build trust that they work just fine.

[hoveringuy]

A few more lapping events.

The Ridge. Running behind a 550+ hp Shelby GT350. He dusts me in the straights but I'm still behind him most of the lap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv7TC-FOQOo

Pacific Raceways. Basically an open track with the Alfa Club. It was hot for Seattle, 85 degrees! so down on power but still a scant second off my personal best with the N54 manifold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6DKgkYvE_I

I do miss the 700rpms on the top where this intake starts petering-out, but my overall laptimes are the same.

[DEV0 E30]

Good stuff!

Pretty awesome to see you keeping up with that Shelby and the GT3.

[hoveringuy]

Good stuff!

Pretty awesome to see you keeping up with that Shelby and the GT3.

I hope that wasn't best effort for the GT3, even for an older one!

[DEV0 E30]

I hope that wasn't best effort for the GT3, even for an older one!

Probably not, but nevermind that...

Just let the E30 have the ego boost. It's 70-80% as good as a GT3 on track!




oh how I forget about the smilies here.

[LukeJ]

I think the 3 stage manifold made your car sound better than before.

Lots of things to like about the videos and the project overall. It's really cool to have some 'real world' comparisons between the two manifolds.

Looking forward to feeling more midrange torque and the overall improvement in drivability.

[hoveringuy]

I ran the last event of the year today so I can render the final verdict on the manifold swap.

I was running consistent 1:37 laps today which was my "day's best" time last year. I was hitting 135 at the end of the straight, it was 132 or 133 last year. Maybe, maybe, maybe I'm giving up 500-1000 rpms at the very top that aren't in my effective power range anymore, but that's more than made up for by having more power down low for squirting out of corners.

N54 is the winner for simplicity of swap and for "big power" tracks with long straights and room to wind it out.
N52 is the winner for everything else. Street drivability is tops, stoplight to stoplight, highway passing in 6th gear, broad torque. Holds its own at the track.

N52 big downside is that it won't clear the stock booster, or any booster, and needs to have a Tesla booster or boosterless brakes (which I actually love).

https://youtu.be/GXsLx-1bo7s

[hoveringuy]

The dual-DISA intake has been great! The car runs flawlessly and the torque for normal driving has been fantastic.

Inspired by adam.nonis I've been thinking about what a better intake would like like, one that didn't start choking by 6500 but would still be easily street-able. I cut-up my original non-DISA intake to start thinking about what it could look like; my thoughts going into this is that I still want the Throttle Body, MAF and cone filter, but including the throttle body adds a lot of constraints that make the design tougher.

The N52 throttle body is actually redundant because the VVL acts as the throttle, the TB is just a limp-home safety device in case the cam position sensor fails, so it can be deleted. To prove that to myself, I unplugged my TB and jammed it open with my German beer duck, then reconnected the intake and plugged in a second TB. As expected, the car ran just fine. I'll need to think about what the tradeoffs of not having any throttle body would be, does it just mean I couldn't drive the car home in limp mode or would it be an actual safety issue, like I would get runaway power when valves went to full lift??


The DISA and non-DISA runners are identical. You can see the perforated grid between #3 and #4, that's where one of the DISA valves would sit to open/close that passage.



the N52 thottle body is 76mm which is HUGE compared to an S50 (64mm), but the intake chokes at higher rpms because the piping directs the air in a complete 360. At the back of the throttle body the air splits 90 degrees to the left and right, then curves around again in the oval tubes.


Duck holding the throttle body open.


Engine running all "ducked-up.... TB is plugged-in but not actually doing anything. The intake is wide open.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XHGjkFeAjGA

Also, if you haven't seen it, 22RPD has a 3D printed intake manifold that gets rid of EVERYTHING and just runs in Alfa-N mode. https://22rpd.com/blog/the-future-of...esting-sign-up

[moatilliatta]

Yes. Just toss on a s54 carbon box to n52 cut runners..

[Yo.goob]

Spoiler alert, before I bolted everything I test-fit a Tesla booster. Clears fine.
Note: All the cool kids are running the CR-V remote reservoir (there's a picture of an S54 car with that setup somewhere....) that gives even more room.

Decided to come back to this thread to check out how the iBooster setup/boosterless brakes would work with the N52 and I actually had someone mention the E34 remote brake booster setup for other swaps, namely the V8 swaps since they have the same manifold to booster clearance issues. Has anyone looked into how that E34 remote brake booster setup would work with the N52 swaps or is there something else that I'm missing?

I would assume that there is some custom fabrication for proper fitment/geometry as some people have done for the V8 swaps, but I can't imagine how the ECU would communicate with ABS or any of the plumbing to either the E34 or maybe even the E90 brake booster if it can be done.
This could be a good alternative for people who might not want to use the iBooster or boosterless brakes but no idea just yet if it's worth it or doable!

[Northern]

Decided to come back to this thread to check out how the iBooster setup/boosterless brakes would work with the N52 and I actually had someone mention the E34 remote brake booster setup for other swaps, namely the V8 swaps since they have the same manifold to booster clearance issues. Has anyone looked into how that E34 remote brake booster setup would work with the N52 swaps or is there something else that I'm missing?

I would assume that there is some custom fabrication for proper fitment/geometry as some people have done for the V8 swaps, but I can't imagine how the ECU would communicate with ABS or any of the plumbing to either the E34 or maybe even the E90 brake booster if it can be done.
This could be a good alternative for people who might not want to use the iBooster or boosterless brakes but no idea just yet if it's worth it or doable!

I think very few people are willing to use the E34 swap now that the ibooster exists. It's massive, heavier than any other option, and an eyesore in the engine bay.

[DesertBMW]

there is a small diamater booster made for hot rods that fit bigger V8 engine and it is only 7 inch in diameter, so use that and move it half inch, it looks like it will fit. Search Part Number: 965-G753709

or just the booster on amazon search 7 inch universal brake booster