S14 - Overrrated or Underrated?

[Panici]

My one regret is that I can't pitch the EFI in the trash and run carbs. I can't tune EFI myself, but I can tune carbs. (I really hate EFI. Computers belong on your desk, not in a car.)

Will, I would agree that a factory EFI system is no fun. However I submit that a standalone EFI system that you can fully control is a blast.
More adjustable then a set of carbs.

I will admit that making the changes on a laptop instead of with physical parts doesn't quite have the same "feeling".
That's why I like a manually adjustable fuel pressure regulator and boost controller. Still have some knobs to fiddle with that way.

[craz azn]

I co-sign almost everything that's been said thus far in regards to how these engines perform, how to get the most out of them, even most of the personal preferences. One just has to be realistic about what these engines, and cars, can or cannot do. It punches well above its weight for what it is, but don't expect it to be a stump pulling torque monster in any scenario, with any and all mods thrown at it.

It depends on how you use it. Now remember it was built for racing a lightweight car around a track

+1

After driving my M3 for the past 13 years, if I get in a normal E30 or E36, the first thing I notice is the very forward weight bias. Its not a good tradeoff. In the case of an E36, yep its got more power and torque, but god do they handle poorly. The front end is just too heavy. An E30 is better, but I wouldn't say its good. This is part of the reason the E30 M3 is such a legendary car, and all the M3s that have followed have failed to live up to the fame (Checks internet for most winning touring car in history... Oh yeah still the E30 M3.)

I wouldn't say an E36 handles poorly. It is a way more forgiving car to drive at the limit compared to an E30 (and same can be said for all the M cars that followed). I think maybe you mean in terms of driving experience or driver engagement? Maybe then the E30 excels... but that's about it. Assuming similar modded cars, E30 vs newer chassis cars, it just can't match the cornering speeds (if we use that as a metric for 'handling')... same can be said for how the car brakes, puts power down, etc.

As for the racing record of most winning touring car... maybe, but keep in mind, that was done at a time when racing regs were adopted worldwide, and also when rules were somewhat stagnated... you will never find that anymore ever again, even with the advent of the modern rulesets that always have a BoP, etc.

[TobyB]

Overpriced.

t

[82eye]

agree on the overpriced. it's a brilliant engine for it's time and was never meant to be a sedate road going engine. i can't see living with one at all.

[MrBurgundy]

Do you have one now? Or getting one soon?

doubt it. He just wants to see us argue in the thread.

[moatilliatta]

Pay or don’t play.

I consider real M engines to be a bit exotic,

S50b32 are not far behind, and s54s are going up as less are available.

I don’t think any one should be surprised.

[varg]

I can't tune EFI myself, but I can tune carbs

So pick up a book and learn. The "secret" tuners keep is that it isn't hard as long as you actually bother to learn the fundamentals. Every failed and fucked up project car tune I've ever fixed was just because the owner didn't put any effort into learning what is going on and tried to get by on guesswork.

I literally taught myself how to tune from scratch on my own daily driver with a used MS and a harness I built in my living room in the 2000s, and eventually tuned countless cars and made money doing it. I've now owned multiple daily driven cars with ECUs I built and tuned myself and have tuned dailies, track cars, drag cars, weekend cars, a boat... I've tuned carbs on bikes and cars too with nothing more than the knowledge I gained about how everything works via tuning EFI. EFI is actually easier than carbs because you can actually see the results of what you're doing with datalogs and an AFR gauge, there is no guesswork after you get the base tune running.

[2mAn]

doubt it. He just wants to see us argue in the thread.

Sort of...I just wanted to stir the pot a little... and it worked.

Now if I wanted to see people argue, I would post a new topic in the P&R sub...

[Northern]

Simon stirring the pot...

I think it was great at the time.
Still sounds excellent when modified, *can* make great power for the displacement. It's the 'Right' engine for an M3.

I prefer the sound of an equally worked M20.
I prefer the power/cost/weight of modern aluminum 4-cyl like a K-series, B48, or... well I guess that's it.

Maybe lacking 'Soul' but I have no argument for/against that. Would never buy an S14 on its own, and would never buy an M3 at these prices so it's not a real issue.

[2mAn]

Theres obviously a lot of 'hate' associated with the costs VS what you get so I wonder...

still overrated at $40K? $60k? $80k?

I feel like at they get more expensive I would lean towards needing it to be a larger displacement motor with suspension mods VS a low mileage example. I think so many people buy a mint, low mileage one and are disappointed VS having a spicy one

[AWDBOB]

^^^ that is subjective relative to how well off you are IMO.

For a ballin on a budget cheap ass like myself, I decided it would be worth it to keep the S14 in my car if I could get another or rebuild the one I currently have for $7500 or less. Any more and I can get a healthy 24v in the car which will be more enjoyable, for my application/desires.

Modifying an S14 incurs incredible cost, so from that same angle, stock+ is the only thing that makes sense to me (flywheel+exhaust+tune).

If you didn’t get an M3 for a decent price I see no reason to shell out the cheddar for one. I like the 325iS better in most ways. M3 5 lug, back seat and cluster on a well setup M20 car is bliss for me.

(Unless of course you chase the high of the cars and coffee handjob, in which case, the M3 is for you)

When I had the M3 and Linda the red 325iS out here at the same time, a guy from my old job said, “man I really don’t like the body kit you put on the other one, it looks tacky”. Then I told him it was a 4cyl and he was even more disgusted

[Northern]

Honestly I don't know. Maybe $25k is my cutoff for an M3. I like them, but I'm not buying a 2-3 season car that sits in my driveway over the winter for that much. Maybe if I had winter storage or moved it would be different.

Sometimes I think it would be nice to have something different. A GR86 or newer Mini JCW, both shitbox-y, but have aftermarkets/potential and are something new and much easier to replace should something happen. Also both things I would drive in the winter.

[reelizmpro]

Yeah it all depends. There are so many factors at play. I bought both of my M3's for under $10k but that was many, many years ago. I bought a third for 17K like 6 years ago, then got rid of it because it was S52 swapped and I was swapping my 323i at the time. Not to say, anything was wrong with it, I just preferred having S14'd M3's. Recently, I worked on a mint Sterling Silver on black (my original dream combo) M3 that was up for sale for $50k. I just couldn't bring myself to pay that much for it as that's well over what I paid for my all 4 of my E30's. If I didn't have any E30's at all, then it would be different. Many people who are paying today's prices missed the boat, either they weren't BMW guys originally, too young at the time and now have to pay to play. Buying the well sorted cars ...they don't have to put in the time or knowledge to restore it. Another factor is the investment aspect because they probably aren't going to lose money in the long term, they just have to have a place to store it and keep it up.

[2mAn]

Honestly I don't know. Maybe $25k is my cutoff for an M3.

... ..

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/engine-23/

S14 is not for us peasants LOL

[AWDBOB]

... ..

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/engine-23/

S14 is not for us peasants LOL

S14 market is all over the place. There was a 120k mile engine in TN for sale for a month at $7k